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-   -   flaps 3 landing A320 to save fuel (https://www.pprune.org/tech-log/516208-flaps-3-landing-a320-save-fuel.html)

mikedreamer787 23rd Oct 2013 16:09

My mob's OM says flap full is normal - but flap 3 is
available at command discretion.

Economy is last on my priority list but during normal
ops and if the more important boxes are ticked, then
yes I'll consider the lower landing flap setting taking
into account any tailwinds, preferred runway exit etc
etc etc.

Airports with NA app - (eg BKK) - require flap 3 in
normal ops (lowest selectable landing flap).

(Why Bangkok I dunno, given the city and suburbs
combined is one big bloody noise factory anyway).

A4 23rd Oct 2013 16:34

@TrackDiamond.

The points you mention are all valid.

The main considerations regarding F3/FF with a newly qualified 'Bus driver is essentially not running before you can walk. It is better to consolidate a "standard" technique, get comfortable with it and be familiar with the attitudes/perspectives/power settings etc before moving on. The transition to F3 is not a massive step - but why rush? Get comfortable with FF first.

For those not familiar......there are three main areas to deal with.

Firstly the visual perspective out the window is subtly different. The A319/320 reduces pitch attitude by about 2 degrees as Flap Full runs. A newly qualified pilot needs to get familiar with a "standard" picture out of the window to allow them to concentrate on flying a stable profile, towards the aiming point and then flaring, with a consistent technique, from a known attitude. FF with more drag and associated higher N1 also provides a much more stable platform to achieve this. With F3, the runway sits a lot "lower" (less fields between the nose and the runway) in the visual picture due to the higher pitch attitude - so flare technique needs to be adjusted accordingly.

As someone has already mentioned the 'bus is a lot more slippery in F3 compared to FF which obviously results in less thrust requirement (circa 43% N1). The different "picture", coupled with the lower power gives a much more "unstable" feeling to the approach. If there is minimal headwind component this exacerbates the issues (personally, if there is any tailwind on the approach I simply don't do F3).

Finally the flare is modified because the aircraft pitch attitude is higher - same technique of looking to the end if the runway - but remember the aircraft is "half flared" so a standard flare input on the sidestick will result in a float.......and yes, there is a greater risk of tailstrike.

Natstrackalpha 23rd Oct 2013 17:08

@ A4

Most excellent, Sir.

de facto 24th Oct 2013 06:13


nique and poor energy management. Somehow the east pilots have gotten the idea that landing with power on and not flaring is the way to land a 321
Weired theory indeed.
If there is no roll sensitivity issue,then why i read here that airbus doesnt recommend full flaps in gusty winds?
Thanks
The 737 800 and longer 900 flare techniques are just the same,passing threshold,full attention to runway rise(always bout 30 feet if stable at normal rate) and as you gently pitch up the thrust is reduced to ideally reach idle and final landing attitude and touch at same time.
Thrust reduction counteracts your pitch up,do it after and youll float,do it earlier and your speed will reduce more than it should and worst case tail strike or land hard or both.

cactusbusdrvr 25th Oct 2013 06:08

I believe that the config 3 technique in gusty winds is recommended because the approach speeds are higher and there is less drag. I've not used it unless there was a good chance of windshear (summer monsoon season in the desert here). I just finished a two day trip with strong gusty crosswinds on my legs. I used flaps full because I like having the extra drag and having the engines spooled up.

One thing the airbus does is the auto thrust system is very sensitive to side stick movement, especially in the flare. If you pitch up to arrest your rate of descent before you pull the TLs to idle you will get a spool up of the engines. So when you preflare, any back stick movement will result in an increase of thrust, giving you more energy at a time when you are supposed to be dissipating energy. Since the thrust levers don't move on the bus this spool can go unnoticed by a new or lazy pilot who isn't paying attention.

A4 25th Oct 2013 08:31

Cactusbusdrvr is correct in that A/THR is very sensitive and will react to any speed decay to get back on VAPP quickly which is why it is IMPERATIVE that the T/L's are closed - COMPLETELY AND PROMTLY - at the correct time.

On a gusty approach the Groundspeed Mini function can exacerbate the problem as it is designed to MAINTAIN the aircrafts energy and any delay in getting the power off can add to that energy leading to big float. Whenever I fly an approach in such conditions I always close the levers fractionally earlier than normal to allow for this phenomenon.


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