.is it Toncontin International?

An A320 instructor would not say this. Also, if you are an A320 pilot or instructor, then all I have learnt on the A320 is wrong and does not work?
Yeh, right - even if I was wrong, which I am not, therer would have been a mild adjustment resulting in the same result. Also - (a need to tell?) 20` is very much on the low side? - the operative words here are `very much`
as opposed to TOO LOW!!


50`
30` Hold att, pressurise the sidestick,------------------eyes to the end of the rnwy
20` pitch up approx 2 degrees, judged visually!
Retard, when the old man says so, when the old man says so.

- it works,

fly it on as it WILL float very easily.

@natstrackalpha, maybe you want to study the FCTM a bit more then, because airbus certainly disagrees with you.

NO-170 flare
And FCTM NO-160 approach procedure
In fact during a manual approach the height at which the thrust levers are closed is a judgement based on environmental conditions. Reflected in the FCTM by:
@johnsmith
That is also evidently BS!!!The simple fact is that the airbus will ALWAYS call retard, even if the levers are already in idle.

@bubbers44

You are being too harsh on 300 hour guys. Most of them are very talented indeed. It's is mostly the old "experienced" skippers that want them to use the A/P, not the younger captains that started themselves as 300hr guys. You have no idea what you are talking about!

The problem with their experience levels is that they quickly loose the picture. But the again I have seen equally bad performance from guys with 5000+ hrs as well, the so-called career FO's. They really don't put incapable guys in the LHS in europe.

737Jock

Jock, me old chukka and anyone else too who is quoting the FTM or FCOM.

I am a mere potato, what do I know - nothing!

In Europe, as with anywhere else, if you have a R/H seat man or woman with 300 hours or 5,000 hours, and they are not up to the performance (due to crap training, say) then train the b-----s up! Thats what you are there for. If you have not got the time to do that, then mark `em down and send them back for training.

Equal bs, according to you - perhaps. However, the fact - (not the bloody fcom) the fact remains that 20` is a good height to pitch up 2 degrees, judged visually, eyes to the end of the runway.

Back to the Old Man: Closing the thrust levers when he says "retard" is not going to do anyone wrong. Watch the a/p doing it and see what `it` does (somebody mentioned this observing of the a/p and emulating that - it is very good advice!)

You can get all creative and thoughtful closing the thrust levers at 50` say, some do, some do, it depends on the conditions, wind, weight and a whole number of WAT considerations. the capital of Mongolia in the summer - to Manston in the winter . . . ?

I still say, after having tried it, manually, again and again
50`
30` maintain the att (pressurise the sidestick)
flare by
20` with, a 2 deg nose pitch up - judged visually.

Retard, when the old man says so - and hey, do you know what, it lands very nicely.

When we get as professionally skillful as your good self then, there may well be variations on a theme and we can retard at different times - and hope we get the same result as this one, which, like it or not, works, time and time again. I`ve done it manually, with A/P followed by A/P disc, done it Raw Data and still it works, so what do I say, "try this as I believe it is the best proven and tried method, but don`t try this because 737Jock thinks its bull**** - it works and is 100% effective, but 737Jock has issues with it". You are not flying a B737 by any chance are you Jock? That is a different kettle of fish, sir.

Not disputing the FCTM for one minute - except `airbus` who built the thing, don`t always get it right - like in the case of not resolving issues such as DC ESS Failure, no mention of how to restore comms there - neither on ECAM nor in the QRH . . .? Are we to suppose then that the ensuent loss of comms are to be lived with, or do we restore comms despite the fact that it is not written anywhere how to do it?

Overall airbus are most adept and professional at building lovely aeroplanes which fly really well and are as safe as they ever can be, using the highest of modern technology, how cool is that!

Tried and trusted methods of how to control the dang thang as it is different from conventional aircraft, seemingly by rote, seemingly by numbers, will get you though marvellously, until that time when the wings sprout from your shoulders, if that is at all possible, flying a whole bunch of computers and fly-by-wire divorcing the `feel` from the pilot to the outside air flow.

:rolleyes:sake!

It has been some time and things may have changed but when I transitioned to the A-320 (1991) there was one captain who had a reputation for consistently making the best landings - we were all pretty new to the Bus then. One very observant F/O picked up on the fact that he NEVER heard the RETARD call when this gentleman was at the controls.

I'm flying the A319, so you might want to adapt that to your particular aircraft.
This is what I do most of the times, some times I'll adapt it due to external factors obviously.
I will retard the throttle at 30, then I'll start my flare at 30 right away if LW is above 55 tons, otherwise I'll wait for 20ft.
Then once you start your flare, just pitch up slightly and look all the way down the rwy and let the aircraft slooooowly loose altitude.
Problem with me initially was that I didn't look down the runway, I looked inside wayyyy to much and transitioned outside at the last time. I had my fair share of booms but my landings significantly improved once I started looking way more outside, just like I used to be doing on the skyhawk ;).
If you balloon, try to release sidestick pressure, but do not try to push the sidestick forward, don't try to increase the pitch either.

Idle Thrust
 

Sorry, but I've flew A320s back in '95 for 9 yrs and again in 2010 and they have ALWAYS called "Retard, Retard" regardless of TL position.

Just read John Smiths post, maybe I'm wrong. So much for memory!

737 jock, when I started in the 737 I had 5500 hrs because that was required. When I became a captain my FO needed 5,000 hrs. so we didn't run a flight school as an airline, we really knew how to fly a B737 as captain on our first day as FO. Things are different now and some people think 300 hr pilots are totally qualified to fly an airliner with no supervision. You decide.

As for the old timers wanting them to use the autopilot, I probably would too knowing how they would hand fly it. The new captains are probably still wobbling around getting it on the ground so don't notice.

Very good discussion, many fascinating insights...I am now very retired, but flew the whole family for some years, and reading all the posts, and remembering my experience, I wonder if erverybody uses, or is ordered to use the autothrottle? I used it of course when necessary (autoland, climb, cruise, but if the approach was CAT 1 or better , I always had it OFF at the beginning of the approach. And I was not the only one! Speed fluctuating a little with gusts etc... but once you have settled with the right N1, you seldom need to change it during your descent. Same thing with flight director bars...very dangerous things at times (see the Rio Paris accident)...As for the landing itself, you said it all...I just remember (320) that it is the only plane where I often pushed slightly on the stick to land it (when coming very close to the ground). Memories...

You really are showing your age bubbers44!

Either your airline changed something or you need to pay better attention johnsmith:

Rio de Janeiro to Sao Paulo ENTIRE FLIGHT IN ENGLISH (43 minutes) - YouTube

In this case thrust levers are fully closed by 30ft! The airbus will call RETARD at 20ft.

FCOM:

At least you won't hear "Retard" from him... :)

No copilot or computer has called me a retard yet. I guess that is in the new stuff. Does it say retard when you make a bad landing too? You are right though, they made me quit playing this game at 60 because of old age. Now pilots are smart enough to fly until 65.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------|

:ok:

NARVAL
 

NARVAL bon soir, that is so cool . . . I found that if I set thrust at 180kts say, then flap1 (+/-gear) will bring me down to `S` speed followed by flaps 2 with no (or very little) thrust adjustment like a constant power approach technique.

Natstrackalpha, check the video I posted and the fcom! The airbus does say Retard even when the thrust levers are already closed at 20ft.

Jock - so what? You are now arguing in my favour! I never disputed about the old man saying retard - you meant somebody else, surely?

You need somebody who is arguing that the lil `ol man won`t say anything.

However, now we are here - again - since when, like, when, was it necessary for a pilot to get a retard call anyway - yea lo that I always adhere to it, it is sort of comforting. . . . .

My point - (sigh) this time (sigh again) is - quite frankly, by the time one gets to an A320 - if one cannot land a bloody aeroplane, with or without a voice then one should not be there flying the bloody thang in the first place, after many years of experience, you then move on up. For those young `uns who have gone through a sort of integrated course, and have made it to an airline with one of the more direct routes to the right hand seat - have had to crack it in the sim and in the aeroplane too- they `aint gonna let a total num num loose on a $50,000,000 jet -

Everybody on here can land, successfully - unless we are all ghosts from, the past!!! Giving tips on landing to somebody who is on base training or ZFT is one thing. Debating like a load of politicians is pointless and avoids the objective.

Somebody also PM`d me - in short don`t bother! some do things the right way - others do things the wrong way, if your company does it your way then thats up to your SOPs and our SOPs dictate the best way, whether its switching off an APU :ugh:! ! ! ! or landing - it works, like, this, gottit? Good, now you try it, well done! Now lets move onto somethingelse.

Apart from the odd g-bs--te, an experienced Captain in the Left seat has loads more years of experience and has had to endure deep training courses and has probably been an instructor and has flown about three kinds of airliners again and again for a number of years.

You are just trying to wind me up - or you are inebriated or just thick.

One f---g turtle neck who knew jack, actually tried to tell me to delete the EO immediately after an engine fail - in short, either do it properly or f--- o--. There are plenty of young students who fly really well after good quality training, and they really want to learn and really want to get it right - that is why they ask us. It is up to us to sift the tot:mad:kers from the gen studes/FOs and not be led into childish debate by the former.