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-   -   Visual slope guidance and jet aircraft (https://www.pprune.org/tech-log/417612-visual-slope-guidance-jet-aircraft.html)

BRAKEOUT 8th Jun 2010 19:47

Visual slope guidance and jet aircraft
 
I remember reading somewhere that ICAO? PANS OPS? mandate that jet aircraft should not be landed on any runway without some sort of visual slope guidance (PAPI, VASI etc).
Can anyone verify this and maybe quote a reference? Thanks.

Mad (Flt) Scientist 8th Jun 2010 23:07

That would appear to contradict CAT IIIB and autoland as a concept, no? Would seem a bit unlikely.

keith smith 8th Jun 2010 23:37

You may be technically corret, but I doubt there are many CatIII runways that don't boast a VASI/PAPI
Keith

OverRun 8th Jun 2010 23:59

I wonder if it might be "precision approach guidance" that is needed rather than 'visual slope guidance'.'

Hopefully quoting safetypee's useful contribution from a discussion on steep approaches is in context

The original ‘jet’ certification at LCY required ‘precision’ approach guidance, being either ILS GS or PAPI; thus if the ILS is u/s, PAPI is mandatory.
Cheers
Overrun

eahlund 9th Jun 2010 00:32

Yall have obviously never flown in France. ILS without PAPI is standard, NPA without PAPI is common. But when did France ever follow ICAO?

safetypee 9th Jun 2010 01:28

ICAO Annex 14 requires that runways be equipped, but not that aircraft should not land without guidance.
Operations are in Annex 6 (nothing found).

Annex 14
5.3.5 Visual approach slope indicator systems
5.3.5.1 A visual approach slope indicator system shall be provided to serve the approach to a runway whether or not the runway is served by other visual approach aids or by nonvisual aids, where one or more of the following conditions exist:
a) the runway is used by turbojet or other aeroplanes with similar approach guidance requirements;
b) ...
Don’t forget to check “Contracting States which have notified ICAO of differences”.

P.S. In my day, the ability of a pilot to complete a landing without approach slope guidance used to be a UK CAA requirement.

BRAKEOUT 9th Jun 2010 14:54

Thanks guys. I suppose Annex 14 was the reference I was looking for.


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