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-   -   787 First Flight - Signs of Trouble Ahead? (https://www.pprune.org/tech-log/399176-787-first-flight-signs-trouble-ahead.html)

barit1 23rd Dec 2009 14:25

kijangnim

trailing edge will extand .5 to 1 degree during flight to move the c of g,
How's that again? :confused: :confused:


the bird is magic
Ahhh, maybe that explains it... :D

BigHitDH 23rd Dec 2009 14:34

I think he means centre of lift. Altering the camber of the wing to effectively "trim" the aircraft, if you can call it that?

More to the point, what are the going to call these devices? Flaperators? Flims? :8

XPMorten 23rd Dec 2009 18:46

Boeing calls it Cruise Flap. One increases camber to reduce drag.

For a better understanding of the theory behind it, some reading
up on Supercritical Airfoils might help.

XPM

barit1 23rd Dec 2009 19:44

I can readily accept the advantage (within limits) of a bit more camber.

The question then becomes: Why operate without said camber? In what flight regime is it an advantage to have less camber?

Boeing may have all the answers, but are they disclosing them to we peons?

XPMorten 23rd Dec 2009 20:52


Cruise flaps are trailing-edge flaps operated at small deflection
angles for the purpose of reducing drag at offdesign conditions.
The deflection of a cruise flap results in a shifting of the low-drag
region (bucket) of the drag polar for an airfoil, as shown in Fig. 1.
Flap deflection moves the leading-edge stagnation point, which
affects the pressure distributions along the airfoil upper and lower
surfaces. Figure 2 shows that for natural-laminar-flow (NLF) airfoils,
there is a small region at the leading edge in which it is most desirable
to locate the stagnation point [1,2]. Doing so results in favorable (or
less adverse) pressure gradients over the upper and lower surfaces,
even at offdesign coefficients of lift. Without the cruise flap, either
the upper or lower surface would have experienced loss of laminar
flow at these offdesign conditions. Thus, when scheduled correctly, a
cruise flap can result in a large range of Cl values over which low Cd
is achieved
. For this reason, several NLF airfoils have been designed
with cruise flaps [3–5]. Cruise flaps have also been successfully used
on high-performance sailplanes for several decades.
So basicly, automated cruise flap ensures that the wing STAYS inside
the low drag bucket for a larger portion of the flight reducing drag.
I would guess the main advantage would be whenever you are
above or below your optimum altitude or airspeed. In other words, most of the time..:p

XPM

bearfoil 23rd Dec 2009 21:11

Cruise Flap permits the addition of drag (lift) aftward of the CL, effectively displacing the cg aft, allowing the Tailplane to load, with attendant reduction in angle of attack, which reduces overall drag.

bear

barit1 23rd Dec 2009 23:56

Thank you all. Makes more sense now. :cool:

411A 24th Dec 2009 05:24

'



Cruise Flap permits the addition of drag (lift) aftward of the CL, effectively displacing the cg aft, allowing the Tailplane to load, with attendant reduction in angle of attack, which reduces overall drag.
Hoot' Gibson tried this with a TWA 727 years ago, didn't work out so well when the FE stuck his oar in the water, and the result was a wild ride down....way down.:ugh:

XPMorten 25th Dec 2009 13:29

A bit more details.
The system will be moving the trailing edge through a 3 deg arc,
with the edge deflecting up and down by as much as 1,5 deg either side
of a neutral setting position. It will move in 0,5º increments.
In addition, the spoilers will droop up/down to adjust the airflow around the
slot between the flap and spoiler.

It will save drag equivalent to about 450 kg weight.

Kerosene Kraut 28th Dec 2009 10:34

Yesterday ZA001 had it's second flight. This source claims it was cut short by around three hours. Weather looked CAVOK.

Boeing 787 beginnt reguläre Flugerprobung - FLUG REVUE

Volume 29th Jan 2010 07:37

As can be seen in this picture of the second prototype, Boeing is now using aileron droop in the high lift configuration (meaning the ailerons are slightly deflected down to support the flaps in delivering the lift needed for take of and landing). This is how it is done for Airbus from A319 to A380, this is how everybody expected the 787 to be designed. Load alevation in the high lift configuration by deflecting both ailerons up as some posters assumed would not make any sense.

So finally we have learned, that the unusual upward deflection of the ailerons during first flight was an additional safety measure to have more margins for any unforseen events and is not a standard 787 design feature. The structure obviously is also capable of taking the bending moment in the high lift configuration with aileron droop. (and Boeing is confident in this by now)

case closed.


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