Icao PBN manual
 

Id love a copy of the manual. Thx

There's a useful tool called.... Google.......

http://www.ecacnav.com/downloads/PBN...0bookmarks.pdf

RNP-4 Vs RNP
 

Hi everybody,

I know if I want to operate within north atlantic area, I need a special authorisation for MNPS operations.
what I understood is that we can choose between RNP-4 and RNP-10 to go there.
since we are talking about en-route navigation performance, being RNP-4 does it mean that I am RNP-10 also?
Is the ADS-C the only equipement difference between RNP-4 and RNP-10?

thank you

RNP in the NAT
 

Please someone correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe there is a RNP value required for the NAT at this time. A defacto 12.6 comes to mind but it's not actual PNP requirement as RNP10 is for areas of the Pacific.

Standing by...:ok:

My answer is....CPDLC as well unless in VHF contact.

I found some of the RNAV, RNP and the now all in together PBN information a bit difficult to comprehend, so I took a bunch of notes from various internet sources and combined it into my own notes for reference.

For RNP-10 this is part of my information. Let me know if there are any errors.

"Required Navigation Performance (RNP) standards are almost always performance based, requiring on-board performance monitoring and alerting. This is as opposed to the older RNAV systems which are an equipment-based standard that do not require on-board performance monitoring and alerting.

We say almost always because RNP-10 is an exception. Many areas of the world adopted "RNP-10" as synonymous with "RNAV-10," violating the method ICAO set up in ICAO Doc 9613 - Performance Based Navigation.

ICAO decided (due to some lobbying) not to re-name RNP10 and therefore to retain the "RNP-10"name when in fact it meant "RNAV-10". This was because changing all the charts and manuals would have been very expensive.

The key takeaway from all this is to realize that "RNP-10" does not require performance monitoring and alerting, as do the other RNP designations."

Because of the underlined statement, I have always wondered if that is the reason our FMC stays at RNP/ANP 12.0/XXX instead of automatically switching to 10.0/XXX with the x's being actual numbers of error. We have to manually select an RNP of 10 when in RNP 10 airspace(for the few pilots that actually do it) while the RNP value in the FMC automatically switches to the correct value for other enroute airspace.

Oceanic areas like atlantic are considered MNPS and as such lateral separation of airplanes is 30 nm. so even 10nm is quite restrictive. But I had this conversation with a colleague of mine, flying the GV and have crossed the atlantic many times, told me that nowadays modern jet fly precisely on the required track.
I hope that helped

Heres's a good white paper reference:

http://www.uasc.com/documents/whitep...WhitePaper.pdf

I found some confirmation info...

Order 8400.12, Required Navigation Performance 10 (RNP 10) Operational Authorization

Ocean and Remote Area Operations. RNP 10 and Required Navigation Performance 4 (RNP 4) are the only RNP navigation specifications (NavSpecs) currently applicable to oceanic and remote area operations. Other Area Navigation (RNAV) and RNP NavSpecs are applicable to continental en route, terminal area, and approach operations.

b. ICAO Efforts. States and operators are implementing RNAV and RNP NavSpecs as part of a worldwide ICAO effort to implement Performance-based Navigation (PBN) and communication, navigation, surveillance, and air traffic management (CNS/ATM) concepts.

(1) RNP 10 and 50-nautical mile (NM) lateral separation were implemented first in 1998 in the North Pacific (NOPAC) route system. Implementation in additional Pacific oceanic areas proceeded over the next 2 years.

(2) RNP 10 and 50-NM lateral separation is also currently applicable on the following:

· Routes in the European-South American Corridor;

· Routes between Santiago, Chile and Lima, Peru;

· The West Atlantic Route System (WATRS) and parts of the San Juan and Miami Oceanic Control Areas;

· Some routes connecting Australia, Asia, and Europe; and

· The Gulf of Mexico, where single long-range navigation system (S-LRNS) RNP 10 is authorized; i.e., the Houston oceanic control area (CTA)/flight information region (FIR) and the portion of the Miami CTA/FIR overlying the Gulf of Mexico, Monterrey CTA, and Merida High CTA within the Mexico FIR/upper control area (UTA).

c. Required NavSpecs. The NavSpecs required for the application of 50-NM lateral and 50-NM longitudinal separation is RNP 10. Fifty-NM longitudinal separation also requires enhanced communications and surveillance capabilities. ICAO Annex 6, Part I, Chapter 7, and Part II, Chapter 2 call for authorizations to be obtained from the State of Operator and/or the State of Registry, as appropriate, before conducting RNP 10 operations. For U.S. operators, see operations specification (OpSpec)/management specification (MSpec)/letter of authorization (LOA) B036, Class II Navigation Using Multiple Long-Range Navigation Systems, for all RNP 10 areas of operations, or see OpSpec/MSpec/LOA B054, Class II Navigation Using Single Long-Range Navigation System (S-LRNS), for S‑LRNS in the Gulf of Mexico.

d. ICAO PBN Manual. RNP 10 is addressed in the ICAO PBN Manual (Doc 9613), Volume II, Implementing RNAV and RNP, Part B, Implementing RNAV. RNP 10 does not require performance monitoring and alerting onboard the aircraft. RNP 10 is being retained as the designation of the NavSpec because it is in common use worldwide.

e. Other Separation Standards. Different oceanic separation standards may require different RNP NavSpecs. For example, 30-NM lateral separation requires RNP 4 authorization in compliance with the current edition of FAA Order 8400.33, Obtaining Authorization for Required Navigation Performance 4 (RNP 4) Oceanic and Remote Area Operations. Operators with RNP 4 authorization should not be required to reapply for approval to conduct Class II Navigation in areas requiring RNP 10 authorization.




I highlighted the area immediately above because it has a distant relation to the original question. That was about RNP10 versus RNP 1. I believe that RNP 10 can be more restrictive due to time limitations out of range of nav updates. In the case above, RNP4 approval does cover RNP 10 approval. Both of which are enroute applications unlike RNP1.

PBN Doc.
 

Could you send me the DOC please

[email protected]

Thank you, Bob

For a purely exam perspective like an ATPL or something RNP 10 is more restrictive .

It requires more operational equipment .

But practically as other members said its like comparing apples and oranges.

RNP 1 requires lesser equipment because it is intended to be used closer to the ground but requires higher accuracy because it is used in crowded areas.

RNP 10 is used in oceanic airspace and requires more "aircraft side" equipment.

RNP 10 is oceanic, RNP 1 is terminal. Two different sets. When it comes to RNP each category requires separate approval, IOW being RNP 1 approved doesn't mean being automatically approved RNP 10 or 5 let alone RNP AR. :ok: