It is not clear as the copy of the SB being referenced is unformatted; but if memory serves me correctly, as I am no longer working on the BAe 146, the "BAe 146 / Avro RJ" title at the top of the page is just a generic header for the aircraft family of the SB publications. The actual effectivity is detailed further in the SB and only refers to BAe 146 (and so not Avro RJ). But as other posts have well stated, the clear effectivity can be determined by reading the actual SB itself, and not the summary, against the aircraft serial numbers. Hope this helps That is how Lockheed Service Bulletins were written and I can only assume the other OEM used the same procedures. |
What an interesting discussion, not the question of which aircraft is involved, but the fact that fumes in the ac system is still an issue. I flew the 146 in the mid 80's (BAE stood for 'bring another engine'). One of the more annoying traits was oil fumes in the ac ducts. Sort of traced it to blow by from the APU. We had a time where we didn't use APUs in order to troubleshoot the issue. Can't quite remember the final outcome, I know our airline and BAE were hard at work. Seems as though not much has changed.
|
@safetypee
If a crew of an RJ have a cabin odour event and suspect that the APU was over filled (post #9), then maintenance action using the SB would be a good idea. However, some tact might be required in putting this suggestion to maintenance; you fly, they maintain. If you report an event, provide the maintenance team with a clear description of when the event occurred (the stage of flight / power setting), what the cabin air source was (APU or engine), and what the temperature settings were on the Air Con Packs – these effect the air flow, particularly if selected to a maximum value just after selecting APU air / first flight of the day. Describe the smell as this can help identify the source; a ‘sweet smell’ could be de-icing fluid, ‘sweaty socks’ is usually old oil, new oil might be more ‘caramel’ and may cause some smoke. Fixing the cause of the problem should prevent any new events; cleaning the ducts prevents a reoccurrence (reactivation) of any old contaminant. Do the job once and do it right first time, this will keep the crew happy and the cabin clean. Anyway thanks a lot for your answer and the information given. @ Mach E Avelli ...why not try an engineering thread dedicated to engineers? When you get an answer from someone who knows what they are talking about, please post here for those of us who DO care. @john_tullamarine zweifelkeks should make a phone call to the CAA to get authoritative information Questions arising - are there any material differences between (a) the engine types (b) the aircon systems on the two series ? Thanks for your response and for posting in the engineering forum. @glhcarl Thanks for useful response. @Big Bad D Thanks for your response. I am searching for the original document but couldnt't get my hand on it yet. @Evanelpus Thanks for your helpful information. @Blue50 Same problem still. It's a nightmare. This aircraft is crap as far as the airconditioning system is concerned and flight crews are worrying about their health quite a lot. I am glad to hear that you are still alive twenty years later though. It raises my hopes to live to see my grandchildren. |
From an engineering point of view having worked for an operator of both 146 and RJ100's I can tell you there exists a mandatory inspection bulletin for both. Whether it's the same bulletin I can't remember (I left that company 2 years ago) but I have done these inspections on both 146 and RJ.
I think you need to look at the hard copy of the bulletin from Bae instead of some selected text pasted onto a page as you seem to have found. Ric |
@Riccardo
Thanks a lot for your answer. I am trying to find some original documentation but it's difficult as I don't have any access to engineering data. |
ISB 21-150 as you state is for ALL BAe 146 aircraft.
If you look at ISB 21-155 it applies to ALL BAe 146 aircraft and ALL BAe 146/rj Aircraft....so.....in which case ISB 21-150 only applies to the 146 not the 146/RJ!!! Al is clar.... |
I currently work on a mixed fleet of 146's and RJ's as a certifying engineer.
We do the ISB on both types but I'm not sure if it's mandatory on the RJ (operators can chose to embody non mandatory SB's if they perceive a cost/performance or safety improvement). I can check the book when next at work. As to the APU's causing the problem was that the Garret or Honeywell? We have both. As to the poor maintenance comment....I'd say it was more a poor design issue given the age of the equipment we are discussing. Cranfield University are currently investigating Fume (in 146/rj's and B757) events in a year long program to investigate the causes and health impacts. Look forward to the report. All jet aircraft will put tricresylphosphates into the cabin air (if that's what is found to be the cause in varying amounts not just 146's. |
All jet aircraft will put tricresylphosphates that's easy for you to say!
Sorry couldn't resist, having a mad five minutes. |
@spannersatKL
That's why I am looking for the regulation regarding the AVRO. @Vortechs Jenerator Thanks for your contribution. Any information regarding the regulations regarding oil fumes on the ARJ is highly appreciated. Obviously you are right about the poor design but there are different kinds of tackling the problem and there is good maintenance and bad maintenance. I am aware of the Edward Furlong studies at Cranfield University and like many others I do hope for some clear evidence. Thanks again. |
What 'regulation' might that be? .....
Do you not mean a certification 'requirement'.... Or if the ISB is 'mandated' to be carried out on the RJ as well as the 146? |
Or if the ISB is 'mandated' to be carried out on the RJ as well as the 146? |
From the replies above....no it dosen't......
Just carried out another type of inspection on an RJ today....Mandatory, and the AD states BAe 146 and RJ, 70, 85 and 100....check the AD for the aircaft on the EASA website... |
UK CAA document CAP 467 page 66, states that the AD is only applicable to the 146. Also see the background info on UK CAA ADs.
See EASA ADs for the more recent ‘BAE146’ and for the ‘AVRO146RJ’ ADs. The search function (keyword) may not work with Firefox Browser. I could not find any airconditoning AD for the AVRO RJ. Also see the background info on EASA ADs. |
I performed sb 21-150 (check of the regeneration airduct internals and Air cycle machine mainly) on an rj100 tonight as part of an A check. It is only mandatory (as has been said) on 146's so I'll check with planning next time I'm on day shift as to why it is called on the rj too.
There is also an sb 21 - 156 for further (mandatory on the 146) inspection of the sound attenuation ducts performed at C check. There is a whole bunch of preamble about how engineering should take crew reports of air contamination seriously, inspect the ducts and replace the entire ECS pack if found to be contaminated. There is however an expected and acceptable amount of "normal" accumulations allowed in the ducts (they're hanging inside:)).The inspection is for oil "wetness" which is defined as easily transfered from surface to a metal or plastic implement! I'd suggest if the inspection showed oil wetness, the cabin would already be smokey! There is the SIL 21 45 too which gives similar advice but with SIL's there is the caveat that they are not to supplant any other official maintenance documents (so they are purely for advice) |
All times are GMT. The time now is 20:55. |
Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.