Pre flight Checks/Walkaround
 

Hope this is a reasonable place to ask:

Do commercial crews perform a walkaround inspection as part of their preflight checks, or do they leave it to the groundies?

Might settle a friendly argument!

Thanks

Flight crew is responsible for the condition of the aircraft and make their own inspections - often a more lengthy one before the first flight of the day.

The aircraft is checked for existence, secure attachment and condition of many items (such as pitot/static tubes,control surfaces and antennas) , fluid leaks and tell-tale curling paint, access panels/service doors position and also look for obvious damage to the airframe, engines and landing gear. With a three person crew, this was often accomplished by the 2nd officer or Flight Engineer.

Ground can assist by reporting when they see something out of kilter.

Here's to your getting it right. :)

As a ground handler......

I always see a crew member perform a walk around before departure.

If engineering is based, then a 'groundie' will do it ALSO when present.... Morning departure, or if called out......

I've NEVER seen a pilot NOT perform some kind of walk / run around ( if it's raining! )

Us push and headset guys also perform the last check on departure..

My advice.....Always carry a raincoat!!!

Regards....

One further point to add,.... if its raining, you can be sure its the FO doing the walkaround

:}

Thanks guys, that's as I thought.

CG

in a time of increased cost cutting hired tech ops from other outfits do only what they have to do (if at all). allways check oil / IDG oil, gear pins, brake and tyres condition in the mornings.
"it's the night shift's fault" is the 99% excuse if u point them to those items.
:=

Does the preflight walkaround happen when the plane is empty, after all passengers have sat down or while passengers embark?

doesn't really matter for the outside. usually the crew gets to the ship before boarding. cabin crew does the cabin prep (can't do that with pax already in there), one pilot stays in the cockpit, the other goes to count the tyres. when cabin is ready and fueling is finished we call for boarding.
if we order the techies to fill up some oil or put some more nitrogen into the struts we prefer to have that work done out of sight of the pax. even if it's absolutely non-critical, but pax don't know, sh*t their pants and then you have to explain/convice blababla

The anwer to the original question is found in most Flight Operations Manuals (FOM).

Somewhere in that manual - probably under the heading of "Duties and Responsibilities of the Commander" - you will find this statement...

"The commander must satisify himself that the aircraft is airworthy"

Most captains that I know, including myself, would agree that to fullfill that requirement, means that someone who will fly IN that aircraft, should do some form of exterior inspection.

Remeber being a pax on a Minerve DC-9-something on a circular flight from JFK-FDF (Martinique)-PTP (Guadeloupe) (and eventually back to JFK). I was going to Guadeloupe and had to stay on the plane at FDF. I was near the front of the cabin.

Apparently the plane's voice warning box was defective since a tech arrived with a replacement. They then put it through its paces with the cockpit door open. "Fire left engine", "Fire right engine", "Pull up Pull up" and the like. I wonder what most of the pax thought.

The crew may have been French-speaking, but the airplane itself spoke English.

Both do a walkaround where I am, normally the groundies as you put it find more defects as we know what we are looking for:)

One of the Captains I used to fly with a LONG time ago had a great sense of humor. One of the first times I flew with him he said, "You do the exterior preflight normally but I will do them when it gets real bad outside. Of course, I have yet to see it *real* bad..."

Truth was, he often did the walk-around when it was raining or snowing. I took a lesson from him and often did the exterior check...sometimes even when it was 'real bad'. :ok:

There are two hidden bonuses gained by a pilot walkaround:

Firstly it brings you up to speed with the current wx, especially freezing mist etc. Also the state of the ramp.This may not be apparent from your nice airconditioned seat with windows at the front.

Secondly it's an opportunity to say hi to the ground staff such as tug drivers, bagage handlers, refuellers, caterers etc. It's surprising how often they will pass a bit of information on via the headset man when they think you are a half way decent chap/chapess.

Lou Scannon, you are the sort of pilot that us engineers like! You are quite right:ok: .

FCS Explorer, first off I think you need to omit the word order from your post, if a captain asks me to check the oil I certainly would, and using my large knowledge base of the engine and aircraft I would assess the need for more oil. Also I would not 'put some more nitrogen in a strut' because you had ordered or asked me to. There are laid down parameters for oleo extensions i.e. weight, temp,pressure and also oil level if used. I think that you could do with reveiwing your attitude towards engineers:= .

Pre flight Checks/Walkaround
 

Lou Scannon, you are indeed the type of Captain, and later FO, I'd love to fly with.

Now, at risk of being a boring old fart, or c*, a few of the major things I've picked up on in 25 yrs of wandering around aircraft at all hours. . .

* Cracked undercarrage strut (Viscount 747)
* Cracked flap extension bracket (Viscount 832)
* Leaking prop seals (Viscount 720, and there-in lies another story)
* Broken tie bolt head within a 737-200 JT8D-whichever version it was.
(I used to flick the fan over as I walked past, to check out the intake fan blades for damage - and as I walked away the broken bolt head started to fall into and around the blade roots. Sounded like a roulette wheel. Caused a tiny bit consternation at the time (engine change-no spares), and totally fouled up of my illicit meeting in another city. (Sigh.)
* Broken rear support bolt on the port JT8D of a DC9 (it was hanging down just a tiny bit.)
* Bent engine mount on an F-27 (ditto)
. . and 'playing' in a new 737 on an extended turn round, prior to a sim session next day, discovered that a certain manufacture was not wiring up the emergency bus properly - 3 out of our 12 so affected - like, no-workie.

I'm not trying to big-note, just pointing out that the hanger floor people are always, and have always been, under aweful pressure to get that thing on line in the morning, and so sometimes miss the big picture items. As I always miss the more important small picture items - what do you mean? My oil needs changing? It's only a little bit black? And black is the new black, isn't it?

And to any freeking non-aviation type out there - Pur-leaze! An aeroplane is just another mechanical device, just like your car, If you looked after you car as well as aviation types look after 'their' loved planes, it would last forever, and you would never kill anyone because something broke.

Ah dear.

I really shouldn't past late at night, should I!

On our SOP says that first walkaround of the day should be done by the captain.
And I do it every time,finally it's my responsability.I have friends who took off with blockage on flight controlls (smaller planes ),or with pins inserted on gear struts...:} ...and you wouldn't find a good way of explaining yourself to the chief pilot.:E

geez. if the displays says oil is low i order oil to be refilled. that simple. a work order. wouldn't be necessary if night shift had done it. doesn't mean i got attitude towards engineers.

correct me if im wrong here, but isnt a walkround before each flight by one of the flight crew a legal requirement?

Indeed. When the oil's are displaying low an order has to be issued, it's your sole responsability to issue that order.
But once issued, i'd politely request the engineer's immediate attention! :{

Arrived at this post by chance and it reminded me of an incident back in the 1960’s when I was flying Lightnings in the RAF. The flying programme got underway late one morning because the first pair of aircraft had low tire pressures and had to be changed. The newly arrived 1st line techie was congratulated for his diligence. Wheels on the Lightning were at very high pressure and inflated inside a safety cage where they underwent a leak test for, I think, 24 hours.

When the 2nd pair failed the pressure tests it dawned on the Line Chief to check the pressure guage. Guess what!