Rudder - Foot Placement Technique
 

What is the recommended way to place ones feet on rudder pedals. The reason for this is that there seems to be two schools of thought on this issue.
1. Feet all the way up: Have immediate brake action as required during take off or landing. Steer the rudder with heels.
2. Heels on the floor then move feet up to apply toe brakes. Reason being that you may accidentally apply brakes if you have feet all the way up as above.
I would appreciate to hear of recommended practices from manufacturers, FCOM, airline's policy and/or airline instructors on this subject. FCOMs on aircraft I have flown so are silent on this issue.
I was taught feet all the way up, so far no problem but would change immediately if not recommended.

Left foot on the left pedal. Right foot on any other that's left.

I guess it depends on the type of aircraft. If there's a likely need that you'll need brakes soon after touchdown (like on some taildraggers), then I guess you could pre-empt it. Otherwise, keep them off.

I'm more comfortable with heals on the floor,But both techniques are correct .

I've always flown aircraft with heels on the floor to prevent inadvertant braking with rudder input, a very good check airman on the Airbus showed me his technique of feet all the way up so as to make a smooth transition to manual braking, I've been using this method for several years and prefer this method for landing only (A320/321). :ok:

Then once you've got it sorted out go fly an Aerocommander. Whole new ball game.

My preferred technique has always been to have heels off the floor- this has worked well for me in both rotary and fixed-wing. It gives good rudder control, and an easy and effective transition to braking when required.

I had a check with a guy who was adamant that heels should be on the floor until actually braking- he was barking at me (during the take off roll in a GA aircraft) to move my feet down the pedals until very little more than the tips of my toes were on the pedals. This was awkward and uncomfortable, so I didn't do it again.

By the way - what's different about the Aerocommander?

Cheerio!
CC

During type rating training in a 737 Classic simulator with only night visuals it is not possible to see the exact position of the pilots feet on the rudders unless you shine a torch there which is a bit weird of course. Anyway, I observed carefully the brake pressure read-outs on the instructor panel during one particular student's take off run and there was proof that he was inadvertently applying dabs of brake pedal pressure as the aircraft accelerated in a slight crosswind. He had his feet high on the pedals with his heels clear of the floor and had no idea that he was dragging the brakes until he was shown the read-out on the instructor panel.

It is only personal opinion which doesn't count for much, but I believe in the age old teaching that heels should be on the floor when taking off and landing. With RTO there is obviously no need to shift feet up in an abort and with landing it takes less than half a second to lift the heels off the floor to apply brakes. No contest.

Try pushing rudder for OEI flight with the ball of your foot. I found this allmost painful (in the saab sim) and got better results from having the whole foot on the pedal so that I could keep the pressure on with my heel. For the same reason I allways keep the pedals as close as possible during take off and landing to be able to give full rudder input without struggle incase of an engine failure.

/LnS

This will always create heat among pilots. The advantages and otherwise are:

1. Heels on the floor expecially during takeoff means far better rudder control and is easier to keep the a/c straight expecially in a strong crosswind. With modern a/c all having an RTO function on the autobrake, the brakes get applied sooner which gives a bit of extra stopping power over manual braking at least at the very beginning of the RTO.

2. Heels off the floor and toes ready on the brakes means faster manual braking if required but in a modern a/c how likeely is it that you'll have both an engine failure and an autobrake failure at the same instant?

As someone already said, it's "horses for courses" unless of course your company SOPs mandate a particular method. It's also important to know your a/c's autobrake design. Does the autobrake high/max setting give actual maximum braking effort that the brakes can attain or will manual braking while literally "standing on them" do better? Even if manual gives more braking effort, at least the RTO function will get the retardation started sooner than any human can and you can then take over manually but be sure to actually use the maximum. Boeing did a survey some years back that showed that the only pilots who actually used FULL MAX brakes in their sim were their own certification test pilots. All others failed to use the a/c to its max potential.
For me its heels on the floor for the above reasons but I know that others have probably equally valid opposing views. Having watched pilots over many years in the sim make one cockup after another of RTOs, I've come to the same conclusion that Boeing did. Thank God for autobrakes and I wish pilots would realise that more people have been killed by mis-handled RTOs than by continued takeoffs with an engine out.

just curious why? and what is different with that type?

The first bit of top pedal movement is steering and the next bit is brakes. The bottom is solely rudder. Taxing requires you to be on tippy toes. Should there be a strong crosswind things can get interesting. (Talking Shrike's/580/680 types)

Maui

for the B734,autobrake RTO is only armed after 90kt on the t/o roll.just a point..:ok:

Shite! or should that be Shrike
 

So *that is why the gratuitous landing given me by a certain senior examiner was such a stuff-up after a spot on touchdown.
The 'B' was having a lend of me!

Thanks, maui.

I've landed a few Shrikes, and nobody briefed me about that !! Shrikes !!

Sorry to 'but in' just thinking? How do female pilots manage the pedals with hi-heels on? Only a thought:confused:

Dave

I dunno if you're serious, i have been flyin with female pilots both as a FO and a Capt.
Have yet to see a female pilot with hi heels on the flightdeck.

Runaway Gun.
It is my recollection that that was so on the shrikes as well as the earlier 500 series a/c. If not I stand corrected, and claim old farts disease. I haven't had the pleasure of a Shrike since 1973.

Maui

High heels
 

A twin Eng Jet crashed back in the late seventies due to a co-pilot wearing high heels , the investigation findings showed that the high heel prevented free movement of the rudder on T/O as it stucked between the floor and the rudder , the Co-pilot was a male but it was a fashion those days,after that accident high heels were not accepted on any cockpit.

thanx Maui, but I still a little stuck aren't the brakes always on top and rudders bottom??? so it doesn't appear different to me.



Heels on Floor rhov!!!!:ouch: :}
rhov:)

I think if you read my post again I said that the first bit of top pedal movement is steering (hydraullic from memory). Push further and you get brakes. As opposed to the more conventional, steering through the bottom pedal movement. The complication comes when you are trying to combine aerodynamic (rudder) steering and pedal steering and brakes simultaneously.

Happy pedalling

Maui

High Heels?
 

Surely nobody ever thought wearing high heels and flying was a good idea? Most women I know can't even drive a car with the bloody things on!

Oh, and heels on the floor!

OD

It is still published in my company's 737 OM-B and it was taken over from Boeing years ago:
Heels off the ground for all ground ops (including shortly before landing) and heels on the ground when in the air. It worked for me all the years.

The way that worked for me, on many types of aeroplanes, was to rest my heels on the floor but when you know that you will be using the pedals and brakes I just used to 'lock' my heel step on the bottom of the pedals and just pivot toes. Not meant to over simplify just to be comfortable when you most need your toes. Heels on the floor when flying - shoe heel step on the pedals when landing or taking off.

But.......that was my way and I am sure everyone has their way!

" . . .for the B734,autobrake RTO is only armed after 90kt on the t/o roll.just a point.."
Similar for the 'bus - About 70 kts. Lose an engine before these speeds and the asymmetry can take you off the runway very rapidly. A sim instructor used to demonstrate this very well during his sessions. That half second delay in getting your feet in position may make the difference.
History shows that if a manufacturer recommends a particular technique and you don't follow it, you can have a very difficult time in court.

And with there hand bags in the footwell:E

Heels on the floor for take-off and for touchdown. Heels on rudder bar for most landing roll braking and taxiing.

Is it just me?
 

I've always had a quandary over the heels on/off floor options. On the jets I've flown (no autobrake, considerable rudder required for cross wind landings, steering via tiller) heels on the floor gave me better rudder control to maintain centerline during take off, and landing roll out prior to brake application.

However, I had noticeable problems sliding my feet up on the pedals in order to activate the toe brakes. Specifically, I had been unable to slide them up while holding substantial rudder on one pedal, to negate a stiff cross wind. This resulted in a swing of the aircraft while my feet were relieving pressure on the rudders, moving up, then applying brake and rudder again to re align the aircraft with the runway. Typically all done before use of nose steering has been effected.

A RTO could be a nightmare! That's why I use heels off the floor (toes over the brake pedals)

Perhaps I've less stick and rudder skills than the average. Can anyone comment on crosswind landings heels on the floor with a transition to braking?

Hawk

Personally I use the heels on the floor tecnique..
Some considerations:
Faliures at low speed:
- the trick to mantain control is to cut immediatelty thrust
- even if RTO doesn't activate you are supposed to have enough RWY ahead to allow the time to get your feet on the brakes (if I am not wrong this delay is accounted in the performance calculation),

Maui, I see :O :ouch: sorry man. and thanks for the explaination:ok:
that is indeed a quandry, I think it was hard for me to believe. and I had a self-fulfilling phophesy:}


Keep It Straight...Keep An Eye On The VSI And Don't Let The Airplane Go Downhill D.P.D :}
rhov :}

loveGSM
I'm not arguing here, each to his own, but get a sim instructor to "surprise" you with an engine fail below autobrake speed during a sim detail. It's not the runway ahead that gets you, it's the lack of runway to the side. The aircraft swings immediately the engine fails and then your directional control problems start.