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-   -   reject for dog on runway (https://www.pprune.org/tech-log/148725-reject-dog-runway.html)

DerekWarrior1 24th Oct 2004 07:03

Canuck, do these deer explode upon impact or is it a spontaneous phenomenum? BTW, you can always tell when a pig has gone through the engine by the crackling sound.


Canuckbirdstrike 24th Oct 2004 16:58

Capt. Claret:

Thanks for updating me on the requirements in Australia. I obviously missed this information. my only defence is that I did the book research on this issue in late 1999 and either missed it - easily done, or the rules have changed. This shows a very positive attitude to safety issues. I wish other jurisdictions would see it the same way.

Now I do understand from some contacts in Oz that you have had some interesting incidents with kangaroos and airplanes...


Good one - perhaps the National Enquirer will do a story on spontaneously exploding deer. The issue is the large deer population increases over the last 10 - 15 years - lots of food few if any natural predators and a public that doesn't like people to "shoot Bambi" either directly or indirectly restricting the ability to increase hunting season length and kill limits.

Stangely enough what may help us is the fact that the automobile insurance companies are complaining abiut all the damage being caused to cars by deer and they seem to have a powerful lobby.

Now if we could make them spontaneously explode.....

DerekWarrior1 24th Oct 2004 18:32

Canuck, The pig joke may have gone over your head, I didn't realise you were not a Brit. In the UK crackling is what we call the lovely crunchy skin on roast pork. Bloody tasty but also very bad for you! Don't ask me about dripping, I'll really be showing my age!

Del (who, remarkably, has lasted 'till 58 without a heart attack)

Canuckbirdstrike 24th Oct 2004 18:57


I absolutely got the crackling joke - I am a Brit by birth (a cockney), but left at a very young age for the Great White North. I was raised by a Brit & a Scot and still remember the fights over the crackling at the Sunday dinner table. To add to this I am married to an Essex girl named Sharon - I know the story with that one. So I am still steeped in Brit traditions.

If you made it to 58 then perhaps there is hope for me yet!


ABO944 24th Oct 2004 20:15


"I was raised by a Brit and a Scott" ........


Britt's are Scotts are they not??

I once hit a bee on take-off, but that's not really very interesting and rather embarrasing compared to the huge mamals you lot have slaughtered!

P.s ..... dont you hate it when the crackling still has the hair on it?

Captain Stable 24th Oct 2004 22:34

OK - the pedant in me fought a battle with the me who says "Loser! Get a life!" and won...:hmm:

English are Brits. Welsh are Brits. Scots are Brits. Irish ain't (even Northern Irish). :8 :}

For the sake of the terminally confused and the former colonials who visit these pages, England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland are all countries in their own right. They form part of the British Isles. Great Britain is England, Scotland and Wales. The Isle of Wight does not form part of the island of Britian but is part of Great Britain. The United Kingdom (which is the name of the political entity) includes Northern Ireland with the aforementioned three countries. The Isle of Man I have no idea about (and nor do most Manxmen :oh: ). The Republic of Ireland is part of the British Isles but is a sovereign state in its own right. The Channel Islands are a Crown Dominion, and do not form part of either the UK or, indeed, the EU. since historically they only became subject to the English Crown when Duke William of Normandy ("The Conqueror") became King of England in 1066. Historically they are part of Normandy and got forgotten about (and a Good Thing too).

The things you learn about on TechLog... :eek: :cool:

Techman 24th Oct 2004 23:12

You are obviously just trying to confuse us.

Why is it England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland when it comes to football, but United Kingdom and Northern Ireland when it comes to Athletics, and the Olympics I believe?

You are obviously just trying to improve the odds through deception;)

And just to stay on topic, I've hit a badger upon landing and had a dog refusing to clear the taxiway eventhough we flashed all available lights at it at, and even opened a window to shake an angry fist at it.

Crowsnest 24th Oct 2004 23:25

Sorry to depart from the Sunday Lunch/Ethnic banter theme.

Had to goaround on short final in a 152 due to a deer on the runway.Was about to land as due to width of runway (ex-mil) and bobbing white tail had dismissed atco report and assumed it was a bunny. Would've made a mess of the spamcan.

If you look on the Africa forum you'll find a story about a 73 which had an undignified exit due to canine powerplant intervention. A sobering vision when spotted on the approach from the flightdeck.

DerekWarrior1 25th Oct 2004 08:22

Captain Stable, Congratulations on your excellent summarisation of the geo-political situation concerning Britain's off -shore dependencies. I am from Jersey and you're spot on.


Lancelot de boyles 25th Oct 2004 08:32

Back when I was still learning to fly, sitting ready for departure at EGHH. Was watching various livestock running around taxi and runway, including a fox which was chasing a rabbit!

More recently. Was talking with a skipper on turnaround in a 737 at a remote north african airfield. There was a dead dog (looked like he might have been a big bugger once) on the runway. A succession of landing aircraft were slowing pounding the remains into the runway. It still caused a bump on the takeoff roll.
The skipper mentioned something about being carefull about the camels, which had a tendency to cross the runway unexpectedly.

Aswan. every time I went in there, there were dogs on the taxi way, lazing around.

Captain Stable 25th Oct 2004 22:26

Yes, back on topic - I've had a fox strike in an EMB110 many years ago. I was a raw F/O, and the stupid animal was right on the centreline (unusually, so was I!) of the runway I was attempting to depart. I tried to lift the nosewheel over it. My skipper (who hadn't seen it since he was scanning the instruments) thought I had gone bananas and was trying to rotate early. There was a (slight) thump and we reported it on the climbout. ATC said nothing was found later, but we all knew the caterers served it up to us disguised as chicken sandwiches on the next duty.

Canuckbirdstrike 26th Oct 2004 01:52

captain Stable;

Thanks for educating the colonial peasant on the subtleties of British geopolitics. I will add though that my mother considered herself a "Scot" and not british and I always refer to her heritage in that manner, even though she passed away a few years ago.

Now if you can only explain the mysteries of Lucas auto electrics and why you serve beer warm then I really would have a well rounded education.

Now the most bizarre bird strike I had was over 10 years ago landing a DC-8 in Prestwick, during the flare a pair of Skylarks flew down the inlet for the left air conditioning pack - a small 4 x 6 inch opening. The net result was dispacthing with one pack inoperative to LHR. The captain accused me of deliberately hitting the birds!


Milt 26th Oct 2004 06:12

Flock of Birds

From memoirs - Tropical flight testing of a revised ECS system in a Canberra B20.

Birds caused me some problems at Butterworth. I wanted to test the ECS at low altitude and high speed. Whilst at about 400 kts at 200 ft over the sea off the island of Penang, I noticed a little black spot grow rapidly in size directly along the aircraft flight path. I only had time to pull a little elevator before the bird impacted with a huge thump on the aircraft's nose. I pulled up losing speed trying to assess damage. At the speed even a small bird could do considerable damage and this one had been fairly large. We returned immediately to land at Butterworth.

Fortunately, the bird had impacted along one edge of the forward bomb aimer's window. This was armoured glass and had taken most of the shock. A deep gouge had been made in the perspex surrounding the glass window. We were lucky.

A few days later I had the test Canberra fuel load at maximum when I started a take-off at dusk from the 8,000 ft runway at Butterworth. As we accelerated towards lift-off, I saw a very dense flock of small birds rise up off the runway some 600 feet away. Appearing like a small black cloud the birds flew upwards and I thought that I would probably miss most of them if I held down, on or close to, the runway. But the black cloud, disturbed by my approach, apparently decided to try to go back to ground.

I had now lifted off and had a split second to decide whether to put the wheels back on the runway and abort the take off. But there was hardly enough runway left in which to stop the heavy aircraft. Were I to fly through the birds, I would likely lose both engines. What a predicament! Instinctively, I pulled back hard on the controls in an attempt to rise above the main concentration of birds. The aircraft shuddered, at the low speed, as I felt for the limits of the lift from the wings. This occurs just before wing stall which was to be avoided at all costs.

The navigator, behind me, was unable to see forward so I advised him and the tower by calling out,"Avoiding birds" as I tried to also turn a little to the right. The black cloud rapidly became a multitude of dots as I squashed into the outer fringes. There was a staccato of little bangs and the left engine wound down a few RPM before recovering. We had made it. I pulled a substantial reduction in power on both engines in case there was damage, left the undercarriage down and flew a tight circuit to return to the runway as soon as possible. On the landing run, I could see dead and injured birds scattered on the runway.

There was evidence of birds having hit the engine compressor guide vanes and many birds and pieces were pulled from the undercarriage and wheel wells. We had not been fast enough for the small birds to have damaged the aircraft skin. The fire crew picked up 58 birds from the runway.

Inspection and ground running of engines did not point to any damage so we launched again the next evening after a vehicle had flushed out any birds from, and adjacent to, the runway. The flight was to have been for about 4 hours at maximum altitude to permit aircraft temperatures to stabilise. After 3 hours, we were too cold to continue and I returned to lower altitudes and warmer air.

The trials had shown the inadequacy of the revised Environmental Control System (ECS) system so it was now up to the engineers to try again.

DerekWarrior1 26th Oct 2004 08:38

The warm beer to which you allude is called 'real ale'. It's quoffed by folks with beards and sandals and large stomachs (and that's just the women). To be considered drinkable the beer must contain bits of twig and dead rat. The real ale enthusiasts go round in groups and use words like, "Methinks" and "Landlord." They also enjoy traditional pastimes such as skittles, morris dancing and playing conkers and tiddlewinks. And they love crackling and dripping.


Lancelot de boyles 28th Oct 2004 22:58

I suspect there are no explanations concerning auto electrics, Lucas or otherwise.
Leads one to suspect these were designed by 'folks' with beards, sandals and large stomachs sometime on a friday afternoon, after quoffing a few of the local real ale/ dead rat and twig soup.

Crowsnest 29th Oct 2004 01:39

Did noone want to hear the rest of Milt's story then?

Ignition Override 30th Oct 2004 05:23

A Shorts 360 hit a deer on a dark runway (hypnotized by landing lights) in Eldorado, AR (ELD), in '83 or '84. The mechanics drove down from the base in Camden. They then hauled the dead animal back.

Runway kill, not 'road kill'.:}

RUDAS 30th Oct 2004 16:10

i once hit a fly on takeoff...:}

Tempsford 31st Oct 2004 11:50

20+ years ago, when the Company I work for started to operate the B757 we had a number of manufacturers reps with us. As the B757 was relatively new in service, we were in effect learning about the B757 together. However, in some cases a rep could be a little over officious.
We sometimes had bird ingestion into the engines and to establish the damage to engine relative to the size fo the bird, this particular rep wanted any remaining debris of the bird so that he could get the debris annalysed (type, weight etc).
On one particular day a bird had gone down an engine, but had missed the core, so the Engineer had just cleaned off the debris and thrown the debris away. The Rep asked for the debris to be told that it was no longer available. He became quite indignant and one of my colleagues decided that he had had enough of this rep. My colleague said "it's ok, I know what sort of bird it was". The rep said "great, what was it?". To which my colleague said "it was a Condor". Somewhat taken aback the rep said "that's unusal ( we were at LGW!), are you sure?" My colleague replied "Oh yes, I found the body on the runway, it had a pipe in it's mouth". At this point a very dejected rep left the office.
I was detached to MBJ on one ocassion to change some Fan Blades on a B757 Engine due to a bird strike ex BGR. The same rep was on the phone to me asking for any debris. He was very pleased when I told him that not only did I have what was left of the bird that had gone down the engine, but I also had all of his mate that had hitched a ride down from BGR wrapped round the RH MLG.


akerosid 31st Oct 2004 12:57

I heard of a procedure for a dog on the runway - the captain is supposed to make a Full Intensity Deceleration Order (FIDO). ;) :p

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