displayed wind/V on a flight deck and not in GA cockpits?
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displayed wind/V on a flight deck and not in GA cockpits?
As simple as it seems, all modern airliners (and biz jets) feature displayed wind/V. Flying also in light GA SEP, I haven't seen it yet in GA planes, however I haven't flown types like the Cirrus, let alone types like a PC12
First You need GPS info, AND an airdata computer that both feed their values to a separate computer that distils W/V from them.
Is the complexity and cost so high that it is prohibitive in smaller a/c?
Richard
First You need GPS info, AND an airdata computer that both feed their values to a separate computer that distils W/V from them.
Is the complexity and cost so high that it is prohibitive in smaller a/c?
Richard
Not really the cost but the administrative burden of getting an EFIS into the cockpit of certified planes. The Garmin G3X and Dynon SkyView have been doing it for years in Experimental's, and, from memory, the early Dynon D100's have done it for a decade or more there too.
Now the G3X & SV systems are STC'd you're starting to see them in more light planes with all their features.
Now the G3X & SV systems are STC'd you're starting to see them in more light planes with all their features.
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If you want to display actual wind data (and not downloaded data from a ground source) you'll need some kind of inertial nav platform that is probably still cost prohibitive for GA aircraft.
I wouldn't know how digital attitude systems could derive both wind vector and speed from airborne sensors just using attitude information?
You can quite easily get an overall wind speed by comparing TAS and GS (from GPS or DME) but that's about it?
I wouldn't know how digital attitude systems could derive both wind vector and speed from airborne sensors just using attitude information?
You can quite easily get an overall wind speed by comparing TAS and GS (from GPS or DME) but that's about it?
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All the info you need is there, GPS track, GS, heading and TAS are all you need. The Garmin G1000 does show wind information, almost in the same way as the EFIS on airliners - even the miniscule Aspen Evolution can now display a wind vector - which airplanes did you not see it on? 
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W/V derived from a mathematical process called Kalman Filtering - it must be a complex process as it introduces a 7 or 8 second lag in the EFIS/FMC displays. More meat in the link above.
Same method and hysteresis with ATC surface wind processing and reporting. If you really need to know instant W/V ask for 'spot wind.'
Rob
Same method and hysteresis with ATC surface wind processing and reporting. If you really need to know instant W/V ask for 'spot wind.'
Rob
Or some elementary trig ...In fact you can get a pretty good handle on the direction and strength of winds aloft at different altitudes if you have access to Mode S/EHS, which carries all four of those parameters.
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No inertial nav needed, just any GPS groundspeed and track. The old ubiquitous Garmin 430 shows it, but you have to do half a minute of tediously entering info via the twisty knobs every time you want an answer; it doesn't continuously calculate and display it like fuller avionics suites do.
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All the info you need is there, GPS track, GS, heading and TAS are all you need. The Garmin G1000 does show wind information, almost in the same way as the EFIS on airliners - even the miniscule Aspen Evolution can now display a wind vector - which airplanes did you not see it on?
W/V derived from a mathematical process called Kalman Filtering - it must be a complex process as it introduces a 7 or 8 second lag in the EFIS/FMC displays. More meat in the link above.
Same method and hysteresis with ATC surface wind processing and reporting. If you really need to know instant W/V ask for 'spot wind.'
Rob
Same method and hysteresis with ATC surface wind processing and reporting. If you really need to know instant W/V ask for 'spot wind.'
Rob
No reason you shouldn’t be able to get this in light a/c but it’s probably not so much of a game-changer as it is in a sailplane.
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As you well know it's regarding fully certified public transport aircraft with err, very mature processors and architecture. You know, the ones that had 256kb for the entire database...
Rob
Rob
If you want to display actual wind data (and not downloaded data from a ground source) you'll need some kind of inertial nav platform that is probably still cost prohibitive for GA aircraft.
I wouldn't know how digital attitude systems could derive both wind vector and speed from airborne sensors just using attitude information?
You can quite easily get an overall wind speed by comparing TAS and GS (from GPS or DME) but that's about it?
I wouldn't know how digital attitude systems could derive both wind vector and speed from airborne sensors just using attitude information?
You can quite easily get an overall wind speed by comparing TAS and GS (from GPS or DME) but that's about it?
‘411A NG’
Really, are you related to the original ?
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I am a relative new SkyDemon user, still learning. I use a tablet with a built in SIM card, so whenever possible, I have, or should have en route connection. Till now I never saw en route any wind displayed, like I see when on the ground during preps, I see the W/V arrows displayed at intersecting meridians and parallels.
Lo and behold, yesterday I made a nav trip here in Spain, and apart form visible W/V arrows there was some extra wind info in the en route data line, topside of the chart, see pic. But I guess this one is derived from an interpolation of the next W/V arrows around You, which are coming from a meteorological database. I have no idea why I never saw them, maybe there was an update on the program.
SD has no input from IAS/TAS nor HDG.
Lo and behold, yesterday I made a nav trip here in Spain, and apart form visible W/V arrows there was some extra wind info in the en route data line, topside of the chart, see pic. But I guess this one is derived from an interpolation of the next W/V arrows around You, which are coming from a meteorological database. I have no idea why I never saw them, maybe there was an update on the program.
SD has no input from IAS/TAS nor HDG.
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Am I the only one who used to get a real kick out of navigating with a whizz wheel, sectional and a watch? There absolutely is a time and a place (around complex airspace is obviously a time to be using the 430/equivalent or fore flight etc).
Ironically I have rented plenty of light aeroplanes that had more advanced avionics that the airliners I fly for a living
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W/V derived from a mathematical process called Kalman Filtering - it must be a complex process as it introduces a 7 or 8 second lag in the EFIS/FMC displays. More meat in the link above.
Same method and hysteresis with ATC surface wind processing and reporting. If you really need to know instant W/V ask for 'spot wind.'
Rob
Same method and hysteresis with ATC surface wind processing and reporting. If you really need to know instant W/V ask for 'spot wind.'
Rob
We usually use either of 2 controllers... One's the APM, other's the Pixhawk.... and the APM just can't do EKF cause it's 8-bit.. while the Pixhawk can... cause it's 32-bit.
The Pixhawk uses EKF to smoothen out the Gyro and GPS Readings... and that gives it a much more smooth and coordinated flight. It's literally like the difference between how a (non-FBW) 737 feels vs a (FBW) A320 in terms of smoothness.
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Kalman filter... Learned that during my (50 Years ago, state paid 
) ab initio airline pilot training, 2,5 Yr course, 250 hrs of which close to 100 hrs on twin engine jets... )... Had trouble to understand it completely, it was at the time no one owned a PC, programming was for aliens only.
Never heard that name back again.
Yes airliners are always lagging behind in cockpit features. The answer is simple, You cannot convert one, or part of a large fleet, it is simply too costly, not only the hardware/down time, but then suddenly cockpit crews, maintenance staff everywhere need to have had conversion training. The fleet is kinda split in two with different route structures it can/needs to fly. Spare parts will double (some at outstations).
Biz jets are a different story, many of them are a one-off, equipped to the likes of the new owner. Much quicker new electronics can be adapted to the top line of their model ranges.
GA flight schools (club operated) consist of a gaggle of used Cessna/Pipers that have been collected over the years. Standardisation... forget it.
Not sure if it was an urban legend, but NASA once was reported scouring the world to find suitable 286 motherboards to keep the Space shuttles flying....long after the first one flew.
) ab initio airline pilot training, 2,5 Yr course, 250 hrs of which close to 100 hrs on twin engine jets... )... Had trouble to understand it completely, it was at the time no one owned a PC, programming was for aliens only.Never heard that name back again.
Yes airliners are always lagging behind in cockpit features. The answer is simple, You cannot convert one, or part of a large fleet, it is simply too costly, not only the hardware/down time, but then suddenly cockpit crews, maintenance staff everywhere need to have had conversion training. The fleet is kinda split in two with different route structures it can/needs to fly. Spare parts will double (some at outstations).
Biz jets are a different story, many of them are a one-off, equipped to the likes of the new owner. Much quicker new electronics can be adapted to the top line of their model ranges.
GA flight schools (club operated) consist of a gaggle of used Cessna/Pipers that have been collected over the years. Standardisation... forget it.
Not sure if it was an urban legend, but NASA once was reported scouring the world to find suitable 286 motherboards to keep the Space shuttles flying....long after the first one flew.
It is very nice to be able to simply glance at the wind arrow on your ND, rather than doing mental maths while wrestling and hand flying an airliner on a turbulent approach. "Ah, the wind has just changed direction.........."
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The W/V was extremely helpful during my airline Yrs on the B744. Especially when there was a shear to be expected, You knew it still was around the corner when you did not see the reported surface wind yet on the display. On the other hand, with crosswind during decrab, booting the rudder, the display went haywire.... Anyhow a manoeuvre that one needs to look outside, not inside.
