Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Tech Log
Reload this Page >

Look out the window?

Tech Log The very best in practical technical discussion on the web

Look out the window?

Old 16th Jul 2021, 08:47
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Oztrailia
Posts: 2,991
Received 14 Likes on 10 Posts
Agree with all of the above and besides it’s easier………
ACMS is offline  
Old 16th Jul 2021, 09:14
  #22 (permalink)  

Only half a speed-brake
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Commuting not home
Age: 46
Posts: 4,302
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
identity the aim point (between the papis )
Say that again?
FlightDetent is offline  
Old 16th Jul 2021, 09:37
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Sydney
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Good grief.
There is another thread discussing a mishandled go-around in an A350.
Thats what this sort of thinking ends up causing.
Glad I’m almost at the end.
The profession of “Pilot” is dying.
TukwillaFlyboy is offline  
Old 16th Jul 2021, 14:40
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Planet Moo Moo
Posts: 1,279
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Glad I’m almost at the end.
You and me both!

Imagine the confusion when flying the 'FD's' heads in to the 'deck' during an RNAV or an NPA when the MAP is waaaaaaay earlier! (HND Rwy 22 or the Canarsie are prime examples imvho)

Throw in a time critical event mayhap and the jet t'would be all over t' shop!
Wirbelsturm is offline  
Old 16th Jul 2021, 17:07
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 2,509
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
crimito

Some people don’t realise you can turn them off, it seems.
Check Airman is offline  
Old 17th Jul 2021, 08:16
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Amantido
Posts: 866
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
But unfortunately there are several operators that prohibit their crews to turn them off unless required by the procedure.
Banana Joe is offline  
Old 17th Jul 2021, 11:33
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The World
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by fire1982
I m speechless about this post..
So am I.
I reached the end 2 1/2 years ago with no regrets.
Unfortunately this is the trend and fashion with the "Magenta Line Pilots" and this one will probably soon become a fleet manager .... say no more!!!
MetoPower is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2021, 02:57
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 2,509
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Somebody sent me a quote recently:

Under pressure, you will not rise to the occasion- instead, you will sink to your level of proficiency

Wise words.
Check Airman is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2021, 03:11
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 411
Received 2 Likes on 1 Post
Check Airman
That's a good one.
Fly3 is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2021, 05:22
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: The bush
Posts: 269
Likes: 0
Received 13 Likes on 7 Posts
I had trouble during lower vis training when getting visual at the bottom. Looked at the runway too much and got very wobbly and unstable. Fixed by confirming visual then mostly back to the dials until 50'
The Banjo is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2021, 06:40
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Melbourne Australia
Posts: 308
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Is this not "Dominant Response Hierarchy", Which is why we drill procedures so they become dominant response in an emergency when stress levels are higher.
mgahan is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2021, 12:55
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 799
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Many times, the relevant "procedure" not "drilled" being to simply fly the plane...

Reminds me of this haunting snippet of transcript:

02:44:18 CA: See what the aircraft did!
02:44:27 FO: Turning right sir
02:44:30 CA: What?
02:44:31 FO: Aircraft is turning right
02:44:32 CA: AH
02:44:35 CA: Turning right?
02:44:37 CA: How turning right
02:44:41 CA: Ok come out
02:44:41 FO: Over bank
02:44:41 CA: Autopilot
02:44:43 CA: Autopilot
02:44:44 FO: Autopilot in command
02:44:46 CA: Autopilot

02:44:48 FO Over bank, over bank, over bank
02:44:50 CA: OK
02:44:52 FO: Over bank
02:44:53 CA: OK, come out
02:44:56 FO: No autopilot commander
02:44:58 CA: Autopilot

02:44:58 EC1: Retard power, retard power, retard power
02:45:01 CA: Retard power
02:45:02 : Sound similar to overspeed clacker
02:45:04 CA: Come out
02:35:05 FO: No god except...
02:35:05 SV: "whoop" sound similar to ground proximity warning
02:45:06 END OF RECORDING
Vessbot is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2021, 15:18
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 2,509
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Perhaps it is. You’ve introduced me to the term. In our case, for many people, the dominant response is “more automation”. Those people scare me. I have seen first hand their dependence on the FD for the simplest of tasks, and to say it’s concerning is an understatement.
Check Airman is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2021, 15:21
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 2,509
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The Banjo

I think that’s a pretty common problem. I’ve seen and done it in the sim. This is where training works. Stay inside for as long as possible, and it keeps things going well.
Check Airman is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2021, 15:48
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Seattle
Posts: 221
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Grrr

Errrrrrrr isn't that the problem?
BoeingDriver99 is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2021, 17:12
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 2,509
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I should’ve been more clear. I’d only do that under low vis, where some people have a tendency to destabilise an approach (either by going above or below the GS) after breaking out. Gotta make sure you stay on the glide slope.
Check Airman is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2021, 19:51
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Oxford
Age: 85
Posts: 456
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Has something gone wrong in modern aviation (or the training)? I was always very grateful for "modern" aids in my flying career (and they kept appearing and I used them!) but was always told (and always did) use them as aids until I was happy to go visuaL! I also taught this in both the military and civil world. for many years! Guess I am now well out of date!
Bill Macgillivray is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2021, 21:26
  #38 (permalink)  

Only half a speed-brake
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Commuting not home
Age: 46
Posts: 4,302
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
And so the cat is out.
FlightDetent is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2021, 21:57
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 2,509
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Not seeing what the problem is here. In one specific situation, some people have a tendency to destabilize an approach after going visual. What's wrong with protecting against that by keeping a close eye on the glideslope? Now if you can't do it from a 6 mile final, that's a bit different.
Check Airman is offline  
Old 19th Jul 2021, 07:57
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Tring, UK
Posts: 1,822
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
But, if you’re following the FDs, that means you’ve taken the autopilot out! No wonder you’re having problems! Scary stuff...

In my outfit, we do a lot more AP out FD off visual stuff in training than we used to, often to a runway that has no slope guidance at all, as skill fade does happen in this area. It is surprising how many people have forgotten about simple aiming point technique and/or have got used to being fed by the FD and ignoring what’s going on outside. The way some approaches are coded can leave a nice surprise for you if the MAP is before the threshold and you’re a religious devotee of the magenta cross...
FullWings is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.