A320: What "additional procedures" are you considering when reaching the STS page?
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Actually APU start as said before comes after STATUS is completed when you refer to FCOM where it says "If available APU may be started". But normally in the simulator(Only place where it happens) nobody reads FCOM and you forget to start it. So most do it at elec page though not strictly an Airbus procedure.
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Actually APU start as said before comes after STATUS is completed when you refer to FCOM where it says "If available APU may be started". But normally in the simulator(Only place where it happens) nobody reads FCOM and you forget to start it. So most do it at elec page though not strictly an Airbus procedure.
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Ok thanks for all the replies.
System reset wasn't part of my question because there is a list of resets in the QRH so I never wondered about those.
So if APU shouldn't even be considered before reading STS, what is left? Eng. relight? nothing else?
I was thinking about balancing Fuel if a Fuel imbalance was noted as part of the Eng. relight ECAM.
But to be honest, I'm not sure I would do it before reading STS. I am just trying to find examples of "additional proc's" one would do BEFORE reading STS. And outside of eng. relight, I cant find anything.
If there is only one applicable procedure, why the use of "any" the FCTM? ("any applicable procedure")
Thanks again for the discussion.
System reset wasn't part of my question because there is a list of resets in the QRH so I never wondered about those.
So if APU shouldn't even be considered before reading STS, what is left? Eng. relight? nothing else?
I was thinking about balancing Fuel if a Fuel imbalance was noted as part of the Eng. relight ECAM.
But to be honest, I'm not sure I would do it before reading STS. I am just trying to find examples of "additional proc's" one would do BEFORE reading STS. And outside of eng. relight, I cant find anything.
If there is only one applicable procedure, why the use of "any" the FCTM? ("any applicable procedure")
Thanks again for the discussion.
Only half a speed-brake
How come in 2021 we still have techniques to do ECAM, stop - N/CL, OEB, reset - continue STS? I got trained the same way in 2005 and even then it was not the proper sequence, but the correct guidance not that visible. Since about 2008 the books cannot be any clearer.
It is kind of astonishing, my experience is that 2 full generations passing (cadet->TRI) is almost not enough, such is the inertia.
Last edited by FlightDetent; 26th Jan 2021 at 08:37.
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What’s amazing is that we have OEBs at all. I don’t see why instead of publishing a bit of paper, they don’t send out an update to the FWC / ECAM database, similar to the AIRAC.
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Another possible "procedure" at STATUS: when an OEB affects the STATUS only. There are no current case of an OEB affecting STATUS only, but it is a possibility, as hinted at by the OEB reminder function which may be either on the procedure itself, the procedure and the status, or the status only. In any case, check the OEBs before calling "ECAM Actions". When reaching STATUS, if the OEB (checked previously) affects STATUS messages only, apply the OEB procedure.
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Imagine tomorrow an OEB comes up which tells You : in case of failure XYZ apply the ECAM initial actions and in addition do this and that. When reaching the STATUS you would continue with whatever other actions you need to perform. I remember many many years ago on the A321 we had specific OEBs for fuel pumps failures and in some circumstances we had to perform extra actions dictated by the OEBs once the primary ECAM actions were performed. This is just an example.
Actually, OEB's now have to be considered before starting ECAM. Though, the OEB may direct you to do something only when reaching the STS page.
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All the OEBs I have seen before were always applicable before initiating the ECAM. Our QRH states: « The flight crew must disregard the ECAM procedure and/or Status of the Ecam alerts listed in the « Ecam Entry » field and must apply the QRH’s OEB procedure instead »
Now it’s a good time to be on A320 Family. No more OEBs in our fleet now except a simple one on the NEOs (OEB 57).
Now it’s a good time to be on A320 Family. No more OEBs in our fleet now except a simple one on the NEOs (OEB 57).
Now asking for myself, when did you guys manually turn off the supplementary HYD pump after EFATO on the 330?
*your QRH and company SOPs take precedence*
Last edited by Uplinker; 27th Jan 2021 at 09:43.
The new data base has to be checked and cross checked for errors by the approved provider, so is not something you would want to do or have to afford for every change.
OEBs are supposed to be temporary until a permanent fix is worked out for engineering to implement.
Last edited by Uplinker; 27th Jan 2021 at 09:46.
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5-6 years ago on approach the gear wouldn’t come down (A320). Like any good Captain, I asked the FO what the hell he did!
FO then proceeded to follow the ECAM. I said no, that’s a “special” (thats what we call OEB’s) I told him to go to the QRH for the procedure. He started with that, and I said that doesn’t sound right either, then I remembered the “specials” were only published in the Flight Manual. He opened the flight manual and we applied that procedure - the gear came down on the third try.
I’ll be honest, when the gear didn’t come down my stress level went through the roof - landing gear up wasn’t and isn’t on my “to do” list. Normally we want the Captain to relinquish control of the aircraft and radios to the FO in a non normal with the Captain handling the checklist. In this case I didn’t do that and I believe that allowed me to think more clearly about what I remembered the special to be and that what the FO was reading the first two times didn’t correspond to that memory.
Long story to say I don’t like OEB’S either, I get why they are necessary but I don’t like them.
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In dynamic environment something doesn't work properly or as designed. OEB is temporary fix or a work around till a permanent solution is found to remove it. But OEB reminder function is a good help so you don't have to remember it.
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Correct, that’s what I have written above. You could be instructed by an OEB to apply the ECAM and some additional procedures in the OEB upon reaching the status. It’s just an example anyway.
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5-6 years ago on approach the gear wouldn’t come down (A320). Like any good Captain, I asked the FO what the hell he did!
FO then proceeded to follow the ECAM. I said no, that’s a “special” (thats what we call OEB’s) I told him to go to the QRH for the procedure. He started with that, and I said that doesn’t sound right either, then I remembered the “specials” were only published in the Flight Manual. He opened the flight manual and we applied that procedure - the gear came down on the third try.
I’ll be honest, when the gear didn’t come down my stress level went through the roof - landing gear up wasn’t and isn’t on my “to do” list. Normally we want the Captain to relinquish control of the aircraft and radios to the FO in a non normal with the Captain handling the checklist. In this case I didn’t do that and I believe that allowed me to think more clearly about what I remembered the special to be and that what the FO was reading the first two times didn’t correspond to that memory.
Long story to say I don’t like OEB’S either, I get why they are necessary but I don’t like them.
FO then proceeded to follow the ECAM. I said no, that’s a “special” (thats what we call OEB’s) I told him to go to the QRH for the procedure. He started with that, and I said that doesn’t sound right either, then I remembered the “specials” were only published in the Flight Manual. He opened the flight manual and we applied that procedure - the gear came down on the third try.
I’ll be honest, when the gear didn’t come down my stress level went through the roof - landing gear up wasn’t and isn’t on my “to do” list. Normally we want the Captain to relinquish control of the aircraft and radios to the FO in a non normal with the Captain handling the checklist. In this case I didn’t do that and I believe that allowed me to think more clearly about what I remembered the special to be and that what the FO was reading the first two times didn’t correspond to that memory.
Long story to say I don’t like OEB’S either, I get why they are necessary but I don’t like them.
A colleague had it and it took him about 30 secs after the recycle to get it down (of a max of 2 min). It surely did feel like half an hour !Join Date: Mar 2006
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5-6 years ago on approach the gear wouldn’t come down (A320). Like any good Captain, I asked the FO what the hell he did!
FO then proceeded to follow the ECAM. I said no, that’s a “special” (thats what we call OEB’s) I told him to go to the QRH for the procedure. He started with that, and I said that doesn’t sound right either, then I remembered the “specials” were only published in the Flight Manual. He opened the flight manual and we applied that procedure - the gear came down on the third try.
I’ll be honest, when the gear didn’t come down my stress level went through the roof - landing gear up wasn’t and isn’t on my “to do” list. Normally we want the Captain to relinquish control of the aircraft and radios to the FO in a non normal with the Captain handling the checklist. In this case I didn’t do that and I believe that allowed me to think more clearly about what I remembered the special to be and that what the FO was reading the first two times didn’t correspond to that memory.
Long story to say I don’t like OEB’S either, I get why they are necessary but I don’t like them.
FO then proceeded to follow the ECAM. I said no, that’s a “special” (thats what we call OEB’s) I told him to go to the QRH for the procedure. He started with that, and I said that doesn’t sound right either, then I remembered the “specials” were only published in the Flight Manual. He opened the flight manual and we applied that procedure - the gear came down on the third try.
I’ll be honest, when the gear didn’t come down my stress level went through the roof - landing gear up wasn’t and isn’t on my “to do” list. Normally we want the Captain to relinquish control of the aircraft and radios to the FO in a non normal with the Captain handling the checklist. In this case I didn’t do that and I believe that allowed me to think more clearly about what I remembered the special to be and that what the FO was reading the first two times didn’t correspond to that memory.
Long story to say I don’t like OEB’S either, I get why they are necessary but I don’t like them.
Can still remember the debrief after one of my first recurrent rides as a Captain. Very small company, not clearly defined SOPs. Every emergency in the SIM “I said: you have control”. Examiner wondered if I was afraid to fly and I answered “I know we can both fly, but I have the responsibility to fix the problem”. It works for me.
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I quite like the system- even if it’s not a full on emergency. It really frees up the CA’s brain cells. As we saw yesterday though, some situations are unique, so I think it’s important that we retain the ability to use discretion.
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I agree however that in virtually all circumstances transferring aircraft control to the FO is the appropriate course of action during a non normal.
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