Airbus Max Landing Weight... or not ?
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Airbus Max Landing Weight... or not ?
In my Airbus manual it says that in "exceptional circumstances", providing the overweight landing checklist is actioned then you can land overweight.
My question is, if you are turning back to your maintenance base due to a technical problem which is operationally not a major threat (not a mayday or an urgent situation) then can you just land overweight without dumping fuel because it saves time and money ?? Does anyone know Airbus's definition of "exceptional"
Inputs much appreciated.
My question is, if you are turning back to your maintenance base due to a technical problem which is operationally not a major threat (not a mayday or an urgent situation) then can you just land overweight without dumping fuel because it saves time and money ?? Does anyone know Airbus's definition of "exceptional"
Inputs much appreciated.
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(I speak about my company's SOPs for the 340 here - no idea about the other Busses, or other companies.)
If we have a dire emergency - an uncontrollable fire for instance - we will put the aeroplane on the ground ASAP, and to hell with the weight. (If there's an uncontrollable fire the aeroplane's probably going to be a write-off anyway.)
If it's not a dire emergency, all other things being equal,we will try and dump fuel down to max landing weight before landing.
However, if we do land overweight for whatever reason, then the engineers will do an overweight landing inspection. This is not necessarily a big deal, depending on the weight and rate of descent at touchdown it might only require a visual check.
One of the engineers told me the other day that 210 tons is the magic weight on the 340-300 - land below that weight and the inspection is no big deal, land above it and it becomes more complicated - but don't quote me on that, my memory might be wrong, or his gen. might have been duff.
Lastly, I did my initial 340 course at the factory in Toulouse and we were told there that the undercarriage had actually been designed with the -600 in mind and that even landing at MTOW would not do any major damage. (Always assuming that the rate of descend at touchdown is more or less normal, of course!!)
But to answer your question (now that I've actually read it properly
), the max landing weight is there for a purpose, we certainly don't ignore it just to save time and money. All else being equal, in a non-emrgency situation we will aim to land below max ldg weight.
Hope that helps. (And if anyone has got any other gen for the 340 -300, i'd like to hear it too.
)
If we have a dire emergency - an uncontrollable fire for instance - we will put the aeroplane on the ground ASAP, and to hell with the weight. (If there's an uncontrollable fire the aeroplane's probably going to be a write-off anyway.)
If it's not a dire emergency, all other things being equal,we will try and dump fuel down to max landing weight before landing.
However, if we do land overweight for whatever reason, then the engineers will do an overweight landing inspection. This is not necessarily a big deal, depending on the weight and rate of descent at touchdown it might only require a visual check.
One of the engineers told me the other day that 210 tons is the magic weight on the 340-300 - land below that weight and the inspection is no big deal, land above it and it becomes more complicated - but don't quote me on that, my memory might be wrong, or his gen. might have been duff.
Lastly, I did my initial 340 course at the factory in Toulouse and we were told there that the undercarriage had actually been designed with the -600 in mind and that even landing at MTOW would not do any major damage. (Always assuming that the rate of descend at touchdown is more or less normal, of course!!)
But to answer your question (now that I've actually read it properly
), the max landing weight is there for a purpose, we certainly don't ignore it just to save time and money. All else being equal, in a non-emrgency situation we will aim to land below max ldg weight.Hope that helps. (And if anyone has got any other gen for the 340 -300, i'd like to hear it too.
)
Last edited by tired; 17th Aug 2002 at 21:44.
On the smaller Airbus a/c you cannot dump the fuel anyway. Overwieght landing is OK in an emergency only, engine failure, major systems malfunction, medical problem etc. If you are returning with a tech. problem just because the company do not want you to take it down route then you must burn down to max landing first. Could take 3 hours at least if you are heavy.
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My Company asked Airbus that very question a few years ago and the answer was very specific. The "exceptional conditions" refer to conditions where "LAND ASAP" is displayed in red on the ECAM or when there are unambiguous indications that it is unsafe to continue the flight. In all other conditions the aircraft weight shall be reduced to maximum landing weight or less prior to landing.
With regard the A320 and A340, yes there is a graduated check to be done depending on the landing weight. The first step is straight forward and requires about 2 hours in the hangar. So even a minor overweight landing will have an engineering impact on schedule. In the case of the 340, is will be cheaper and quicker to dump the fuel before landing. From experience, landing a 320 at almost max take off weight put the aircraft in the hangar for more than 24 hours.
Have a nice day
With regard the A320 and A340, yes there is a graduated check to be done depending on the landing weight. The first step is straight forward and requires about 2 hours in the hangar. So even a minor overweight landing will have an engineering impact on schedule. In the case of the 340, is will be cheaper and quicker to dump the fuel before landing. From experience, landing a 320 at almost max take off weight put the aircraft in the hangar for more than 24 hours.
Have a nice day
Union Goon
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All aircraft are certified to be able to land at max takeoff weight with a sink rate of 330 fpm and suffer no damage. Max landing weight requires that to be 660 fmp and no damage.
Often the overweight landing check will just be a download of the FDR to verify impact descent rate and a visual check. Should you exceede 330 on the overweight landing, well then it gets a little more expensive. Also overweight landing procedures may have you turn off the bleeds as well to make sure that you have the engine out go around power necesary....
If you need to return do it and don't even think about the overweight landing other than complying with the procedures in the book for it. If company says you need to return, well just fly around for a while and take in the sights!
Cheers
Wino
Often the overweight landing check will just be a download of the FDR to verify impact descent rate and a visual check. Should you exceede 330 on the overweight landing, well then it gets a little more expensive. Also overweight landing procedures may have you turn off the bleeds as well to make sure that you have the engine out go around power necesary....
If you need to return do it and don't even think about the overweight landing other than complying with the procedures in the book for it. If company says you need to return, well just fly around for a while and take in the sights!
Cheers
Wino
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Overweight...
The 330 (Airbus, not fpm) is a heavy, but has no dumping possibility. TOW is 230 tons at max, LW 182. Even Autoland has been demonstrated to be possible with this marvellous bird at (almost i guess) MTOW..., however, WX has to be CAT 1.
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fantom,
I seem to remember a previous Tech Log discussion on Fuel Dumping where it was stated that the fuel dump system on the A330 was an optional (cost) item. Therefore some aircraft have it and others dont!
But dont quote me on it
Mutt.
I seem to remember a previous Tech Log discussion on Fuel Dumping where it was stated that the fuel dump system on the A330 was an optional (cost) item. Therefore some aircraft have it and others dont!
But dont quote me on it
Mutt.
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Dumping...
Sorry Guys, i do not order planes, nor browse the options catalogue, just run them...
...back at school learnt now that also 330 is available with controllable fuel leaks....
bye bye
...back at school learnt now that also 330 is available with controllable fuel leaks....
bye bye
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had-enough
If you look at the QRH procedure for Overweight landing,there are two main concerns:first,the go around limit weight,and second,the touchdown rate,max 360 fpm.The Go around limit weight is largely superior to MTOW,under normal circunstances,so if you follow the procedure correctly you will not have any problem landing the plane.Max landing weight means the max weight you may land the plane in normal operation,otherwise if you have an emergency - and ONLY in an emergency -you may follow the overweight landing procedure.Remember : on the A340,the jettison rate is 1000 kg/minute,so it takes a lot of time to get rid of 50 tons of fuel!!!
The other day,flying from GIG to LIS I had to land at REC due to a very serious medical emergency,where time was vital.By the time we touched down,we were 17 tons above max ldg wt,the plane very stable,perfectly smooth landing.A preliminary inspection was carried out locally,no problem reported.Back at home base,the manufacturer was informed,no special procedure required
If you look at the QRH procedure for Overweight landing,there are two main concerns:first,the go around limit weight,and second,the touchdown rate,max 360 fpm.The Go around limit weight is largely superior to MTOW,under normal circunstances,so if you follow the procedure correctly you will not have any problem landing the plane.Max landing weight means the max weight you may land the plane in normal operation,otherwise if you have an emergency - and ONLY in an emergency -you may follow the overweight landing procedure.Remember : on the A340,the jettison rate is 1000 kg/minute,so it takes a lot of time to get rid of 50 tons of fuel!!!
The other day,flying from GIG to LIS I had to land at REC due to a very serious medical emergency,where time was vital.By the time we touched down,we were 17 tons above max ldg wt,the plane very stable,perfectly smooth landing.A preliminary inspection was carried out locally,no problem reported.Back at home base,the manufacturer was informed,no special procedure required
