A320 Flap3 landing to save fuel
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 2,515
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 2,515
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
)
Not by me 
I was told of a TRE in our company conducting a SIM session and insisting that one should say 'flaps.....', not 'flap.....'
I think there are rather more important things to worry about than that.
@FlightDetent; yes, the Boeing auto-brake selector is what I had in mind.
I was told of a TRE in our company conducting a SIM session and insisting that one should say 'flaps.....', not 'flap.....'
I think there are rather more important things to worry about than that.
@FlightDetent; yes, the Boeing auto-brake selector is what I had in mind.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Wanderlust
Posts: 3,404
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That's the way it is in airbus. That's the way the manufacturer teaches. Flaps up is in Boeing. It may appear trivial but slowly this creeps in other things as well. It's problematic where there are expats or pilots transitioned different aircaft each adding his flavor. Then a new human factor is being conceived.
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 2,515
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
After I wrote that, I started to wonder what was written on the lever on the bus. We say “flap/flaps up”. Haven’t come across a language problem so far (unless Texan is a language), but point taken.
Only half a speed-brake
I couldn’t give a rats about FLAP or FLAPS (although Airbus want the plural as per the FCOM), but I do care about Zero vs UP.
You call the position of the Flap, 0,1,2,3 Full.
Gear is binary, DOWN or UP.
Also, to mind there’s less chance of confusion or mishearing. The word UP or DOWN can only be attributed to one action.
That said I acknowledge that Flaps UP has been around for years in the B camp. Not saying it’s wrong, just that it can only be better having a verb associated with one item. After all the flap lever is a flap shape and the gear lever a wheel shape for a reason.
You call the position of the Flap, 0,1,2,3 Full.
Gear is binary, DOWN or UP.
Also, to mind there’s less chance of confusion or mishearing. The word UP or DOWN can only be attributed to one action.
That said I acknowledge that Flaps UP has been around for years in the B camp. Not saying it’s wrong, just that it can only be better having a verb associated with one item. After all the flap lever is a flap shape and the gear lever a wheel shape for a reason.
Only half a speed-brake
That is an important angle. There was an action slip incident where upon getting airborne the PM retracted the flaps instead of raising the gear.
Airbuses more often than not depart with F=1, imagine the statistics if the call for retracting them had been Flaps UP as opposed to today's Flaps ZERO.
Airbuses more often than not depart with F=1, imagine the statistics if the call for retracting them had been Flaps UP as opposed to today's Flaps ZERO.
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: italy
Posts: 97
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That is an important angle. There was an action slip incident where upon getting airborne the PM retracted the flaps instead of raising the gear.
Airbuses more often than not depart with F=1, imagine the statistics if the call for retracting them had been Flaps UP as opposed to today's Flaps ZERO.
Airbuses more often than not depart with F=1, imagine the statistics if the call for retracting them had been Flaps UP as opposed to today's Flaps ZERO.
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: 5° above the Equator, 75° left of Greenwich
Posts: 411
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I’d be hesitant to describe an airplane failing to respond to your “alpha prot kicked in”-panic-induced nose up input so near to the ground as “no problem”. Alpha prot at around 200ft not dangerous? Jeez, I wouldn’t know about that...
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 2,515
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That is an important angle. There was an action slip incident where upon getting airborne the PM retracted the flaps instead of raising the gear.
Airbuses more often than not depart with F=1, imagine the statistics if the call for retracting them had been Flaps UP as opposed to today's Flaps ZERO.
Airbuses more often than not depart with F=1, imagine the statistics if the call for retracting them had been Flaps UP as opposed to today's Flaps ZERO.
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 2,515
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I couldn’t give a rats about FLAP or FLAPS (although Airbus want the plural as per the FCOM), but I do care about Zero vs UP.
You call the position of the Flap, 0,1,2,3 Full.
Gear is binary, DOWN or UP.
Also, to mind there’s less chance of confusion or mishearing. The word UP or DOWN can only be attributed to one action.
That said I acknowledge that Flaps UP has been around for years in the B camp. Not saying it’s wrong, just that it can only be better having a verb associated with one item. After all the flap lever is a flap shape and the gear lever a wheel shape for a reason.
You call the position of the Flap, 0,1,2,3 Full.
Gear is binary, DOWN or UP.
Also, to mind there’s less chance of confusion or mishearing. The word UP or DOWN can only be attributed to one action.
That said I acknowledge that Flaps UP has been around for years in the B camp. Not saying it’s wrong, just that it can only be better having a verb associated with one item. After all the flap lever is a flap shape and the gear lever a wheel shape for a reason.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Wanderlust
Posts: 3,404
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FD
a very good point.
Yes! unless it is. Combine windsheer to that and it will happen. In the investigation the ubiquitous human factor will pop up. Bernard Ziegler said "my aircraft is so simple to control it will even prevent bad Pilots from making a mistake" didn't take long to prove him wrong did it?
a very good point.
Won't crash neither happen anything dangerous.. Flaps zero at not the proper speed? No problem, the bus is in charge and won't do "much"
