A320 Manual Landing Technique

[OPL]

Hello,

Just finish my A320 type rating and base training,
Any advices about the A320 landing techniques, especially the flare, and the effect of weight and wind.
still confuse how I should deal with it on A320 ..

Regards

[easymxp]

What have your trainers suggested? What about your landings during base training? On what do you feel weak?
Honestly I find more difficult to land a very light plane, this because I got used to high payloads which are the norm, when I flew almost empty planes I ended up floating.
The advices I was given during my training were to start looking more outside than inside at around 500’ latest, at 50’ positively move my sight towards half - 3/4 runway and feel the closure rate. What I was warned from day one, was never do a two stage flare, like a small input at 50’ and the flare at 30’, by doing this you could waste some runway. Regarding thrust normally it should be closed very close to the beginning of the flare, but this changes due to environment/weight. Landings are something you develop by doing many times, don’t overthink too much and enjoy. Congrats for starting Airbus.

PS be careful on the seating position and try to stick to FCTM guidance

[hans brinker]

I see a lot of pilots flare early (50'), that almost always leads to an increase in thrust (AT is in Speed mode). Eats up runway fast. If the AT is on, reduce TLA to stop/limit power increase around 40', start to flare around 30', and don't prolong the flare, but work it into a touchdown as soon as you can. I sometimes get a great landing, but (almost) never land long.
Also (company procedure permitting), if you use full reverse, don't go from full reverse to forward idle as the engines will still be spooled up, wait at idle reverse until spooled down before closing the buckets (or sleeve...).
Good luck!

[Commander Taco]

.....and then there’s the gusty crosswinds, you know, blowing 20 with gusts to 30 knots. Worst airplane I ever flew in those conditions since the Beech 18. Back when I flew it, Airbus insisted that the ailerons were in normal law until touchdown. Turns out that wasn’t completely true. How to handle the little beast in conditions such as above is a topic worthy of discussion.

[hans brinker]

Originally Posted by Commander Taco

.....and then there’s the gusty crosswinds, you know, blowing 20 with gusts to 30 knots. Worst airplane I ever flew in those conditions since the Beech 18. Back when I flew it, Airbus insisted that the ailerons were in normal law until touchdown. Turns out that wasn’t completely true. How to handle the little beast in conditions such as above is a topic worthy of discussion.

FWIW: In an Airbus the AP is always on, and the sidestick controls it just like the 4 buttons on the FCU. Don't correct for gusts, wait for "it" to correct "itself" while on the approach. The less you touch the sidestick the better. Don't fly till you flare.

My opinion.

[Banana Joe]

Originally Posted by Commander Taco

.....and then there’s the gusty crosswinds, you know, blowing 20 with gusts to 30 knots. Worst airplane I ever flew in those conditions since the Beech 18. Back when I flew it, Airbus insisted that the ailerons were in normal law until touchdown. Turns out that wasn’t completely true. How to handle the little beast in conditions such as above is a topic worthy of discussion.

This was one of the causes for the Lufthansa wing strike incident a few years ago, right?

[AerocatS2A]

Originally Posted by Commander Taco

.....and then there’s the gusty crosswinds, you know, blowing 20 with gusts to 30 knots. Worst airplane I ever flew in those conditions since the Beech 18. Back when I flew it, Airbus insisted that the ailerons were in normal law until touchdown. Turns out that wasn’t completely true. How to handle the little beast in conditions such as above is a topic worthy of discussion.

Well, it is normal law, it’s just that normal laws has some different modes for different phases of flight.

[John Citizen]

This has always worked well for me, which is what I was taught on day 1:

Be stabilised flying towards the aim point/following the GP

100' - look far ahead at the very far end of the runway (most important, to be able to judge the sink rate during the flare)

(if I make a bad landing, it's often because I don't do this and so I often have to remind myself to do this)

Maintain attitude.

After the 30' call - thrust levers idle (also rudder now if crosswind).

After the 20' call - flare

(very important - don't flare too early. Not until after the 20' call otherwise you will land long or firm)

Flare - just a small back pressure input to raise the noise maybe 2 degrees.

Flare by looking at the far end of the runway, and just judge your sink rate as normal (looking at changing runway perspective and the runway edge lines/runway edge lights) to minimise sink and touchdown in the zone.

I hope this helps.

[virustalon]

Originally Posted by John Citizen

This has always worked well for me, which is what I was taught on day 1:

Be stabilised flying towards the aim point/following the GP

100' - look far ahead at the very far end of the runway (most important, to be able to judge the sink rate during the flare)

(if I make a bad landing, it's often because I don't do this and so I often have to remind myself to do this)

Maintain attitude.

After the 30' call - thrust levers idle (also rudder now if crosswind).

After the 20' call - flare

(very important - don't flare too early. Not until after the 20' call otherwise you will land long or firm)

Flare - just a small back pressure input to raise the noise maybe 2 degrees.

Flare by looking at the far end of the runway, and just judge your sink rate as normal (looking at changing runway perspective and the runway edge lines/runway edge lights) to minimise sink and touchdown in the zone.

I hope this helps.

ditto, you’ll grease it, just make sure you pull the side stick gently and and very little, it is just a touch. At 5 callout just keep pulling progressively but only at 5.


in gusty, unstable conditions reduce thrust at 20 and at 10 flare the same way.

cheers

[John Citizen]

In an Airbus the AP is always on, and the sidestick controls it just like the 4 buttons on the FCU

Then what is the purpose of the 2 buttons on the FCU labelled AP1 and AP2 ?

What is the purpose of the red button on the sidestick?

Why do I have to make continuous corrections to fly an accurate flightpath/ILS compared to doing nothing if the AP button is selected on or not ?

I bet you are the one of these people that also says that you can't handfly an Airbus. But then what is the purpose of holding and moving the sidestick with your hand ?

[AerocatS2A]

Sure you handfly an Airbus, but it is different to handflying a conventional aircraft. An Airbus FBW is making control inputs at the same time as you. I enjoy the Airbus but I feel disconnected from the air.

To those recommending certain actions in response to radalt call outs, don’t become too reliant on them, sometimes they don’t work.

[byrondaf]

Don't get hung up on exactly when to flare and how much, it will vary depending on weight, wind, runway slope etc. Just LOOK OUTSIDE and adjust your closure rate based on what you see, it will be different for every single approach. If you start getting hung up on a cue to flare like the rad alt etc then you're more likely to just smash it in. We've all been there!

[giggitygiggity]

Originally Posted by byrondaf

Don't get hung up on exactly when to flare and how much, it will vary depending on weight, wind, runway slope etc. Just LOOK OUTSIDE and adjust your closure rate based on what you see, it will be different for every single approach. If you start getting hung up on a cue to flare like the rad alt etc then you're more likely to just smash it in. We've all been there!

Agreed, like virustalon's comments

in gusty, unstable conditions reduce thrust at 20 and at 10 flare the same way.

That's probably not the wisest thing to say in a thread where someone brand new to the type (large jets?) is asking for tips. Next time it's gusting 12kts across and tries to flare at 10ft, at the very least, the captain will be in for a shock. If descent rate has increased to say 900fpm, 10ft will result in a VERY firm or hard landing.

The problem with asking for tips on somewhere like here is everyone from every different airline with completely different opinions and training/career backgrounds will give you their 2 cents. Some cut their teeth on fast jets, some have only flown an Airbus so everyones experience and method will be different. This is not what you want. You will end up taking the "flare at 10ft when it's gusty" thing and then add the "after 20ft flare" thing together and end up breaking something on a 1% upslope on a slightly steeper than normal approach as you're trying to fly the numbers. Landing isn't IFR flying, it's visual flying.

Instead, listen to your instructors and just keep going back to your companies landing technique and repeat it. As you get more experienced, you'll realise where you can and need to tweak it. Quality of landings in early stages is always going to look like a damped sine wave. You'll slam it in every so often, then go back to floaty ones. One will float a lot so the next time you slam it in. The peaks and troughs WILL get less and less and you'll crack it (metaphorically).

To go against all of my advice briefly, i will say the only 'number' I do pay attention to is the landing weight when the FO is flying. The A320 sidesticks aren't linked so you cant feel when they're beginning to flare. If I see a high landing weight, i should reasonably expect them to flare sooner rather than later - and vice versa. It just gives me a bit of a clue as to when we're likely to float or perhaps land hard/bounce etc.

[John Citizen]

Instead, listen to your instructors and just keep going back to your companies landing technique and repeat it

This technique actually DID come from an experienced company instructor. I did NOT make it up myself and it still works well 1,000 landings later.

To those recommending certain actions in response to radalt call outs, don’t become too reliant on them, sometimes they don’t work

Over 1,000 landings in the Airbus and the radalt call always worked. Obviously, with a dual rad alt failure (in the simulator) this technique cannot be used, but it is a good technique to learn on and after a while you will learn the picture and know when and how to flare without the rad alt.

Don't get hung up on exactly when to flare and how much, it will vary depending on weight, wind, runway slope etc. Just LOOK OUTSIDE and adjust your closure rate based on what you see, it will be different for every single approach

Yes sure, there will always be variations as you mentioned, but the technique I mentioned above works most times in most landings (typical weight, wind, slope etc). and it is a good starting point for routine normal non-challenging conditions (as you would expect for you first few landings).

[FlightDetent]

John, your technique sounds adequate. Except instead of 30' to apply decrab rudder, I like to suggest below 5' is more aligned with the FCTM.

Btw that 5 feet RA call gets omitted about 2x a week here and I have no idea why, which caught me red-handed more times than I could remember. Even when looking towards the far runway end, which apparently I am not very good at, that missing "5" sends a mental shockwave through the unconscious, throwing the rest off balance. Typically over a 60 wide piece on a 3 a.m. rainy arrival.

----

To the original poster:

are you here?

[hans brinker]

Originally Posted by John Citizen

Then what is the purpose of the 2 buttons on the FCU labelled AP1 and AP2 ?

What is the purpose of the red button on the sidestick?

Why do I have to make continuous corrections to fly an accurate flightpath/ILS compared to doing nothing if the AP button is selected on or not ?

I bet you are the one of these people that also says that you can't handfly an Airbus. But then what is the purpose of holding and moving the sidestick with your hand ?

Buddy, you are barking up the wrong tree. Obviously you have experience, I was trying to explain to a new Airbus pilot how it's different from a conventional aircraft. I hand fly AT/AP/FD off a lot. It is not a conventional aircraft, and correcting for disturbances will very often lead to overcorrection because, unlike a conventional aircraft, an Airbus will try to correct for disturbances with the autopilot off. Hence my suggestion to limit control input. Off course you will have to make corrections if you get off the loc/GS, but don't stir the pot....

[Check Airman]

Funny how the “AP is always on” argument only seems to be made for Airbus airplanes. From what I’ve read, the 777 doesn’t have any cables either...

[John Citizen]

John, your technique sounds adequate. Except instead of 30' to apply decrab rudder, I like to suggest below 5' is more aligned with the FCTM.

Btw that 5 feet RA call gets omitted about 2x a week here and I have no idea why

Yes, I agree that 30' is a bit early to decrab, and after 20' or latter is maybe better, however it is interesting to note that in the FCOM, under autoland, FCOM DSC-22_30-80-30-10 it says:

At 30 ft RA, the AP/FD aligns the yaw axis with the runway centerline and the aircraft flares on the pitch axis

I always thought if this is how the automation does it, then maybe I should also fly it the same way.

BTW, the Airbus I fly only have rad alt calls at 50, 40, 30 and 20, We don't get 10 or 5.

[OPL]

what they teach us on simulator,
follow the FDs or keep the rate (usually 700-750) until threshold
at 50 break the rate (around 400-350) by pull the side stick and release it
at 30 THR Idle, meanwhile start the flare, by pull the side stick and keep it
once the mean wheels touch ground, REV Idle
however this method work for simulator and for some flights only.

Now I try to respect the FCTM but i struggle to find a way to flare in right time with wise rate

[FlightDetent]

Originally Posted by John Citizen

BTW, the Airbus I fly only have rad alt calls at 50, 40, 30 and 20, We don't get 10 or 5.

Now it is getting into a proper Airbus thread, all philosophical and fuzzy logic inside out. This: Is it appropriate wording to say the 5' RA is missing on yours, even though you lot do not find it missing having never heard one? Subjective objective, uknown knowns, that's the spirit.

Well, different configurations I guess. The 10 is usually active for autoland with us.