Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Tech Log
Reload this Page >

B737 Takeoff with VNAV and LNAV disarmed

Wikiposts
Search
Tech Log The very best in practical technical discussion on the web

B737 Takeoff with VNAV and LNAV disarmed

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 11th Sep 2019, 07:06
  #1 (permalink)  
tae9141
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
B737 Takeoff with VNAV and LNAV disarmed

Hellow everyone, I am currently undergoing B737 and I got question to ask.

Let us say you were instructed to takeoff and fly runway heading soon after departure,
when you hit TOGA, does HDG SEL automatically selected and shows up on FMA or is it after departure ?

James


 
Old 11th Sep 2019, 08:01
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: EU
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
yes. At least on the NG.
gegemi is offline  
Old 11th Sep 2019, 08:12
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: IRS NAV ONLY
Posts: 1,230
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
It depends on the aircraft, as this is customer option.

It is either HDG SEL for takeoff, which means that as soon as you hit TOGA, you will get HDG SEL on the FMA, or it is wings level in which case the roll FMA will be blank.
FlyingStone is offline  
Old 11th Sep 2019, 10:36
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Amantido
Posts: 866
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Customer options. Ours engage HDG SEL, but there is an airframe or two in the fleet that don't.
Banana Joe is offline  
Old 11th Sep 2019, 10:42
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: A place in the sun
Age: 82
Posts: 1,265
Received 48 Likes on 19 Posts
As a very old fossil, why don't you just fly the aeroplane?
Bergerie1 is offline  
Old 11th Sep 2019, 10:59
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Europe
Posts: 453
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Originally Posted by Bergerie1
As a very old fossil, why don't you just fly the aeroplane?
One can do that and at the same time want to understand how the automation behaves i.e. what to expect from it.
733driver is offline  
Old 12th Sep 2019, 03:59
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Ankh Morpork, DW
Posts: 652
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Small cog
If one is doing a course on the 737, why not ask your instructor?
1. Why have this forum if not to ask questions?
2. There are also instructors here.
ImbracableCrunk is offline  
Old 15th Sep 2019, 05:22
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: joburg
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
As mentioned it depends. Certainly on the classics and on some NGs the HDG SEL will become active on the FMA at 400’

Until then the roll mode will be blank and FD bars will command wings level
Aoyb is offline  
Old 21st Sep 2019, 17:04
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Canada
Age: 40
Posts: 433
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Bergerie1
As a very old fossil, why don't you just fly the aeroplane?
Take it easy hero. It has nothing to do with flying the plane. The guy is asking a question about how the automation works on takeoff.
Jumbo744 is offline  
Old 24th Sep 2019, 12:16
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 265
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Bergerie1
As a very old fossil, why don't you just fly the aeroplane?
I have a lot of respect for a pilot who is capable of “just flying the aeroplane” when required.

But I have no respect for a pilot who chooses to “just fly the aeroplane” because he actually doesn’t know or understand his aeroplane.

Chuck Yeager apparently would never fly an aircraft until he knew the flight manual by heart and could find every switch blindfolded.

We’d all be wise to fully understand our aircraft systems before we get airborne and be forced to exercise our superior handling skills in an attempt to cover for our lack of study and knowledge.
Derfred is offline  
Old 24th Sep 2019, 22:26
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
At my company all aircraft will stay in TOGA until a lateral/vertical mode is selected. For vector departures we set the heading and call for Heading Select at 400AGL or the charted turn altitude if higher.
Sig229 is offline  
Old 25th Sep 2019, 02:44
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: VA
Posts: 210
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Wait.... what?? You can actually takeoff with the LNAV and VNAV disarmed?!

Next thing you'll be telling me is that we can fly this thing without Flight Directors!

Tomaski is offline  
Old 25th Sep 2019, 12:37
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Australia
Posts: 4,188
Likes: 0
Received 14 Likes on 5 Posts
Flight Director addiction, like tobacco addiction, is a real health hazard.

I say that, having operated with one simulator instructor who screams at his students to "follow the bloody flight director" even though the aircraft is in a gross unusual attitude 30 degrees nose down in a spiral dive.
Centaurus is offline  
Old 26th Sep 2019, 09:12
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: The wrong timezone
Posts: 267
Received 11 Likes on 3 Posts
Originally Posted by Bergerie1
As a very old fossil, why don't you just fly the aeroplane?
Bingo! What do I win?
anson harris is offline  
Old 26th Sep 2019, 14:01
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Way north
Age: 47
Posts: 497
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Bergerie1
As a very old fossil, why don't you just fly the aeroplane?
Old fossils are overrepresented in stall or spin during departure/landings

I've read e few reports where they don't use the ASI, but go by their "instincts" getting older.
jmmoric is offline  
Old 26th Sep 2019, 15:37
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: US
Posts: 2,205
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by ImbracableCrunk


1. Why have this forum if not to ask questions?
2. There are also instructors here.
The instructors at his company will know what options their fleet has. As others have stated "it depends upon which options your company has for their aircraft."
misd-agin is offline  
Old 26th Sep 2019, 16:35
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: US
Posts: 2,205
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Derfred


I have a lot of respect for a pilot who is capable of “just flying the aeroplane” when required.

But I have no respect for a pilot who chooses to “just fly the aeroplane” because he actually doesn’t know or understand his aeroplane.

Chuck Yeager apparently would never fly an aircraft until he knew the flight manual by heart and could find every switch blindfolded.

We’d all be wise to fully understand our aircraft systems before we get airborne and be forced to exercise our superior handling skills in an attempt to cover for our lack of study and knowledge.
He'd never get airborne in a modern airliner. The manuals are much longer than the manuals of earlier eras. The P-51 flight manual was 78 pages. Switches? In a modern airliner? He can't reach about 1/4 of them.
misd-agin is offline  
Old 27th Sep 2019, 12:24
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: VA
Posts: 210
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by jmmoric
Old fossils are overrepresented in stall or spin during departure/landings

I've read e few reports where they don't use the ASI, but go by their "instincts" getting older.
Speaking as an old fossil, relying on the airspeed indicator without reference to the attitude and power settings is simply asking for trouble. I can think of quite a few accidents that resulted from chasing airspeed as opposed to setting appropriate pitch and power.

In my "old school" instrument training parlance, attitude and power are "control" instruments. Airspeed, altitude, heading, etc are "performance" instrument. You set the "control" instruments to the desired positions and then cross-check the "performance" instruments to see if you are getting the desired response. If something is out of whack, then you would first cross-check your attitude and power indicators and, if deemed reliable, continue to fly them and then determine if something is wrong with one of your performance indicators. This is a lesson that is easily forgotten in the age of modern airliners. Sadly, there are many pilots who don't get much beyond following the flight director commands, a method that probably works 98% of the time. It's that other 2% that will get you in trouble.......
Tomaski is offline  
Old 28th Sep 2019, 02:40
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Australia
Posts: 4,188
Likes: 0
Received 14 Likes on 5 Posts
The P-51 flight manual was 78 pages.
You were spoilt. The Pilots Notes Mustang RAAF Publication Mo. 780 dated September 1950 issued to this scribe, only had 50 pages. RAF Dakota Pilots Notes only had 45 pages, while RAF Pilots Notes for the Lincoln (four Rolls Royce Merlins) in 1950 had 54 pages
Centaurus is offline  
Old 28th Sep 2019, 11:23
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Middle East
Posts: 413
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
My understanding is the RYR don’t use VNAV for departure, cleaning up they flaps first before selecting it.
reverserunlocked is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.