A320 interrupting the ILS
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A320 interrupting the ILS
will appreciate if one of you, A320 experienced Drivers, will tell me what’s happening when during an ILS (LOG, G/S engaged, and Alt is set to go around altitude) the Alt knob is being pushed..? (in terms of modes changes) and how to revert back to ILS...
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Above 400 ft RA :
DISENGAGEMENT CONDITIONS OF G/S ONLY
‐ The flight crew pulls out the V/S or FPA knob. LOC mode remains engaged, but G/S mode
disengages and V/S or FPA engages.
‐ The flight crew pushes or pulls the ALT knob. LOC mode remains engaged, and the mode
selected by the flight crew engages, as a function of the FCU selected altitude.
BUT :
The descent mode is a managed mode that may be engaged during cruise. It can be armed or
engaged in descent and approach phases (except if the FCU selected altitude is higher than the
present aircraft altitude).
Throughout the years I have had a few trainees caught out of startle effect pulling the ALT knob when setting the (higher) GA altitude ending up in a cancelled approach (no big drama, lesson learnt I guess). Regarding the "pushing" I am not sure, as the aircraft is on the correct vertical profile (vertical deviation centred) but the GA altitude is (let's say) above Your current altitude so technically nothing should happen but let's see if someone has experienced it and can shed some light. I will be in the SIM in a few days anyway so will try it out (still not close enough to retirement to try it on the line).
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My guess is that nothing will happen if you are GS green and you push the ALT knob with GA ALT higher than your actual altitude passing. But I’m not 100% sure and no FCOM with me now. I would love to try it but I will be only flying on the 22. Vacation time. You can try it by quickly pushing the ALT p/b. If by any chance it starts to climb, quickly vertical zero, arm approach again, VS-1500. You will be on profile in no time.
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[ Regarding the "pushing" I am not sure, as the aircraft is on the correct vertical profile (vertical deviation centred) but the GA altitude is (let's say) above Your current altitude so technically nothing should happen
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Have done both when it happened, went around or GS from above. It depends on many factors.
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As far CLB mode getting engaged after pushing it will not.
The CLB mode can be engaged, if the following conditions are all met:
‐ The aircraft has been in flight for more than 5 s
‐ The selected FCU level is above the present aircraft level
‐ The descent, approach, or go-around phase is not active
‐ NAV mode is engaged
‐ Glideslope (G/S) mode is not engaged.
‐ The aircraft has been in flight for more than 5 s
‐ The selected FCU level is above the present aircraft level
‐ The descent, approach, or go-around phase is not active
‐ NAV mode is engaged
‐ Glideslope (G/S) mode is not engaged.
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Thanks for all the answers..
so it can only be interrupted by pulling for open climb.. and the recover to g/s again is by arming the approach again and pulling the v/s knob for around -1500 to intersect from above..
so it can only be interrupted by pulling for open climb.. and the recover to g/s again is by arming the approach again and pulling the v/s knob for around -1500 to intersect from above..
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If you inadvertently pulled open climb while setting go around altitude , one technique that works well is:
-push to level off and simultaneously ask for gear down.
- select a V/S to intercept from above and arm approach.
-if you were in selected speed , managed speed without delay.
it works like a charm
-push to level off and simultaneously ask for gear down.
- select a V/S to intercept from above and arm approach.
-if you were in selected speed , managed speed without delay.
it works like a charm
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.or press the 2 little red buttons. There's one close to each thumb
Only half a speed-brake
He means each button in a different hand. 
and FDs = OFF.
I like Citation's solution too. If it is a quick reflex motion, such as the one for ALT* with excessive V/S, it would be elegant.
and FDs = OFF.I like Citation's solution too. If it is a quick reflex motion, such as the one for ALT* with excessive V/S, it would be elegant.
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Originally Posted by Citation2
If you inadvertently pulled open climb while setting go around altitude , one technique that works well is:
-push to level off and simultaneously ask for gear down.
- select a V/S to intercept from above and arm approach.
-if you were in selected speed , managed speed without delay.
it works like a charm
-push to level off and simultaneously ask for gear down.
- select a V/S to intercept from above and arm approach.
-if you were in selected speed , managed speed without delay.
it works like a charm
Use the red buttons near both thumbs, F/D's off (Bird on if you want) and fly the ILS. Works like a charm, except for children of the magenta line.
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But if you inadvertently select open climb, unless you are too slow to react or things getting ugly you don’t need to hand fly. And I’m a big fan of raw data. But in that case, you just have to press 2 buttons and you are back to normal. Easy peasy. = )
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After pressing the buttons, the FD mode doesn't matter.
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While I have no doubt about your ability to fly raw data ILS, the correct procedure to use the two buttons on each side is to use them with two more buttons on the FCU i.e. the FDs and switch them off when you don't intend to use them. It's not smart to leave them in open climb mode while descending or vice versa. It can confuse the other guy. Knowing automation well does not indicate you cannot hand fly. In adverse environmental conditions disconnecting the AP at the drop of a hat can and has created problems.
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From FCTM: Airbus Golden Rule :Take action if things do not go as expected . The PF should change the level of automation:from managed guidance to selected guidance or from selected guidance to manual flight »
Straight to manual flight is not wrong but you have to be able to manage the workload and the startle factor.
History showed that uncontained startled factor in an unexpected situation along with autopilot disconnection often exacerbated an already difficult situation which could have been sorted by keeping automation.
You have to differentiate between a planned raw data approach and an unexpected auto flight behavior due to technical or pilot lapse or error.
and by the way I forgot : « use the appropriate level of automation at all times »
Straight to manual flight is not wrong but you have to be able to manage the workload and the startle factor.
History showed that uncontained startled factor in an unexpected situation along with autopilot disconnection often exacerbated an already difficult situation which could have been sorted by keeping automation.
You have to differentiate between a planned raw data approach and an unexpected auto flight behavior due to technical or pilot lapse or error.
and by the way I forgot : « use the appropriate level of automation at all times »
Only half a speed-brake
Check, we do not disagree with your solution either.
Yet please observe: The task-sharing for CJ2's method:
either PF/PNF -> announce <explanative of choice>
PF -> move finger by 2 inches and push, turn then. Simultaneously call GEAR DOWN
PM - set L/G lever down
PF - read FMA "VS -2000"
Done in under two seconds, situation contained and the aircraft state / modes are exactly where they had been planned to be. No mental shift for the crew and all text-book callouts and cross-cockpit verifications.
Exactly ONE (admittable double) action of FCU, ONE command, and read of ONE commanded mode change. The full take-over and disconnect has more moves / tasks by order of magnitude.
Besides, personally, I'd go
- AP off and push to keep the nose from rising
- retard the TL's back to around 1/3 travel (a lot) but keeping ATHR on, even if limited
- call FD's off, then TL's to CLB again or ATHR off.
(8 "events" if I calculate correctly)
Feel invited to write yours, from where I am it looks like you are in CL detent with man thrust. :-) Google speed tape confusion, and it has killed more than few times already.
On the topic of "children of magenta", a term which is these days overwhelmingly used as a snotty remark to throw insults around by people who did not put the effort in to understand the message of that lecture ...
... waste of time.
Yet please observe: The task-sharing for CJ2's method:
either PF/PNF -> announce <explanative of choice>
PF -> move finger by 2 inches and push, turn then. Simultaneously call GEAR DOWN
PM - set L/G lever down
PF - read FMA "VS -2000"
Done in under two seconds, situation contained and the aircraft state / modes are exactly where they had been planned to be. No mental shift for the crew and all text-book callouts and cross-cockpit verifications.
Exactly ONE (admittable double) action of FCU, ONE command, and read of ONE commanded mode change. The full take-over and disconnect has more moves / tasks by order of magnitude.
Besides, personally, I'd go
- AP off and push to keep the nose from rising
- retard the TL's back to around 1/3 travel (a lot) but keeping ATHR on, even if limited
- call FD's off, then TL's to CLB again or ATHR off.
(8 "events" if I calculate correctly)
Feel invited to write yours, from where I am it looks like you are in CL detent with man thrust. :-) Google speed tape confusion, and it has killed more than few times already.
On the topic of "children of magenta", a term which is these days overwhelmingly used as a snotty remark to throw insults around by people who did not put the effort in to understand the message of that lecture ...
... waste of time.
Last edited by FlightDetent; 5th May 2019 at 19:17.