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A320 - Feet position for taxi and TO

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A320 - Feet position for taxi and TO

Old 9th Feb 2019, 10:51
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Feet position? Somewhere on or above the dashboard works for me!
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Old 9th Feb 2019, 10:52
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Feet position? Somewhere on or above the dashboard works for me! [img]images/smilies/evil.gif[/img]
Otherwise known as the low-cost foot warmer
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Old 9th Feb 2019, 11:13
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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vilas: you are coming across as far too sensible and reasonable - that never goes down well on PPRuNe!!!
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Old 9th Feb 2019, 15:56
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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I'm comfortable with my feet up or down. One point that hasn't been made is inadvertent autobrake disconnection. With feet on thd floor, you're less likely to accidentally disconnect autobrakes, which is particularly undesirable in the RTO case. If I'm not mistaken, a few years ago, Boeing or Airbus put out some info stating that autobrakes are far superior in that case.
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Old 9th Feb 2019, 16:57
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I am a strong supporter of the "feet up" position, as this is the way we were taught back in 1994 during the A320 type rating. Since then I kept teaching it this way to my trainees and that was also the policy in the airline where I have spent the most of my career. I believe that the "feet up" position has only pros and only 1 single con that I have had the chance to experience a few times on some trainees, that it is the possibility of applying brake pressure during take offs with strong cross winds on the upwind brake, especially if the trainee pumps the rudder. That happened maybe 3 or 4 times in 25 years so I am happy with that statistics compared to all the benefits of the feet up position.
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Old 9th Feb 2019, 17:23
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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One point that hasn't been made is inadvertent autobrake disconnection. With feet on thd floor, you're less likely to accidentally disconnect autobrakes,
That's true. With feet up one needs to use rudder with pressure on heels and keeping the ball of the feet lightly on the pedals. In case of AB malfunction it's very easy to slam both brakes without any delay. Also true that in case of reject AB provides instant symetrical braking.
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Old 11th Feb 2019, 08:54
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Originally Posted by hikoushi View Post
Absolutely. Coming from Boeings and having flown for many years into a home airport where strong crosswinds are the standard, I agree that as long as a person has developed the exact technique you described, it works great. I use it. Maintain the exact position and pressure on the pedals for the crosswind correction, while sliding the feet the pedals to initiate even braking. The tricky bit with Airbus rudder pedals is that they are LONG. If your foot is not ALL the way to the top (your toe will hit the stop on the top of the pedal), your braking will be uneven. Folks coming from other types often don't realize they are not using the entire pedal, and that full brake deflection is not possible unless you do so. If you regularly land the Airbus and wonder why you always have to hold the pedals one side or another even in calm wind, or have one side brakes that always heat up more, check you foot position and feel for the stop all the way up on the top of the pedals next time. For the same reason, the angle of the pedal is somewhat different than other types, so it is difficult to inadvertently brake even if your heels are up.

In other words both techniques work. The key point is to use whichever one gives you best control at all times, which is more than likely dependent on past experience and the shape of your foot and flexibility in your ankles! The other key is to again, make sure that both feet are all the way up to the top of the pedals during manual braking.


Very interesting and instructive HK, Iíve not flown an Airbus, the pedal design on the Boeingís and Douglas aircraft Iíve flown are different than what you describe


Iíve never done anything other than Ďheels on the floorí except when braking and, apart from the risk of inadvertent braking Iím sure I would find rudder and nose wheel control considerably trickier and clumsy using my heels



It does sound like the Airbus design may lend itself more to that technique
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Old 11th Feb 2019, 12:50
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Feet DOWN for T/O, feet UP for LDG.

Airbus pedals are not like on e.g MD80, where you can stay on heels and just slide up easily when you need to brake. Almost impossible on Airbus.
Especially in x-wind ldgs, when you need rudder input and same time need/want to disengage Autobrake, you will be very happy having placed your feet on the upper stop of the pedals. The rubber cover prevent sliding up and you have to lift you feet to go on brakes, so reducing rudder input all that in x-wind. Doesnt feel good.

For T/O on heels prevents inadvertently disconnecting Autobrake in case of T/O abort above 72 kts. Below 72 not really a problem.
Dont know on Boeing a/c.
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Old 11th Feb 2019, 17:41
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In the SIM it is much easier to do the aborted high speed T/O and engine failure above V1 with the heels on the ground. Off course, in the SIM I haven't had the auto-brakes fail either....
I think, based on the way the pedals are designed that it is Airbus unspoken preference to keep the heels of the ground, just IMHO.
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Old 11th Feb 2019, 17:43
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It takes quite a lot of pressure to disconnect the autobrake in case of an abort (A320) . And even then I can still brake manually.
So for me it is feet up. Always.
Imagine an takeoff abort with crosswind. And then the autobrake does not kick in, and your heels are on the floor. I guess it will take several seconds to get your feet into position for braking.
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Old 12th Feb 2019, 05:22
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Airbus test pilots do recommend feet up on the pedals for take off and landing. Feet down are acceptable tho but not their first choice. They speak about it in one of the WIN videos by Airbus. The CBT also illustrates feet up on the pedals. I used to put my heels on the floor for take off and up for landing as FO but now it’s always feet up and I’m loving it. I like having the same feet position for both take off and landing. I feel much more in control also.
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Old 12th Feb 2019, 08:01
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Does anyone know if the certification for RTO was done using autobrakes or manual braking? That may shed some light on this recurring question.
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Old 12th Feb 2019, 08:53
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Originally Posted by Check Airman View Post
Does anyone know if the certification for RTO was done using autobrakes or manual braking? That may shed some light on this recurring question.
Manual braking with brakes worn to their overhaul limit.

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Old 12th Feb 2019, 16:02
  #34 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by pineteam View Post
Airbus test pilots do recommend feet up on the pedals for take off and landing. Feet down are acceptable tho but not their first choice. They speak about it in one of the WIN videos by Airbus. The CBT also illustrates feet up on the pedals. I used to put my heels on the floor for take off and up for landing as FO but now itís always feet up and Iím loving it. I like having the same feet position for both take off and landing. I feel much more in control also.
Well, actually in one of those video, they say that they did survey among their test pilots and it's 50/50%
At the end, they state that Airbus has no recommendation on that one
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Old 13th Feb 2019, 05:04
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Hello Cak,

That’s true. I saw that video. But I’m still on the side that feet up is safer. In a sim, if the instructor gives you a sudden power loss at low speed with Toga thrust on a narrow runway, there is a big chance you will end up in the grass with heels down as the autobrake will not kick in. With your feet up, you can control the aircraft and brake at the same time with no delay. But like you say, I don’t bother anyone if they have their feet up or down as Airbus is not 100% clear on that aspect.
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Old 13th Feb 2019, 08:57
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At the end of the day, is it really necessary for Airbus to get into that level of detail? Do what you think is appropriate. Are there discussions on how to hold the sidestick as well?
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Old 13th Feb 2019, 10:49
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In the A320 series, your feet should be fully on the pedals for T.O. and landing. I feel very strongly about that!

'My' FCTM says: 'The flight crew must have their feet in a position so that full rudder deflection combined with full braking, even differential, can be applied instinctively and without delay.
The only way that can be achieved in tha A320 is by having your feet ON the pedal.
If you ever need to abort t.o. after a severe engine failure at very low speed or at any speed with a 38 kts crosswind, you will need to use full rudder + differential braking immediately if you want to keep it on the runway!
Autobrakes will not help you to keep in on the runway! Worse: you WILL be giving hard and full rudder instinctively and from that moment on it becomes very difficult to move that foot up to brake!!

Keeping your heels on the floor will work nicely as long as all goes well, but that's not what we're getting paid for. We earn our salary by being ready for the unexpected when the sh*t hits the fan!

Airbus would like to inform ZZZ that as mentioned in ZZZ A320 Family FCTM PR-NP-SOP-70, the feet position has to ensure full rudder deflection combined with full braking, even in differential, can be applied instinctively and without delay.
As long as the above combined actions are met. Airbus does not have any specific recommendation on the where feet position should be.
When the day comes that an A320 leaves the rwy after a half second delay in differential braking by a pilot having his feet on the floor, Airbus will say: 'Hey, we told you to be ready. Why weren't you?

The A320 pedals are designed to have your feet ON the pedals. I know that's not the case in most other airliners. Pilots transitioning from other types should be instructed to have their feet on the pedals. It might take some time to get used to, but after a while it feels very normal, comfortable and not hard at all.
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Old 13th Feb 2019, 11:16
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If you ever need to abort t.o. after a severe engine failure at very low speed or at any speed with a 38 kts crosswind, you will need to use full rudder + differential braking immediately if you want to keep it on the runway!
Autobrakes will not help you to keep in on the runway! Worse: you WILL be giving hard and full rudder instinctively and from that moment on it becomes very difficult to move that foot up to brake!!
At low speed Auto brake wouldn't work to start with and stopping is not critical but keeping it on the RW is. There was a RW excursion because differential braking could not be applied although due to improper seat adjustment the toes could not reach the deflected rudder top. But even with proper seating it's difficult to slide the foot up after full rudder application. It is very easy to do that if you place the feet on top.
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Old 13th Feb 2019, 11:37
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Originally Posted by Check Airman View Post
Are there discussions on how to hold the sidestick as well?
Yes there are, and that is in the CBT as well. in the past 25 years I have seen people coming up with so many funny theories on how to place the hand on the sidestick that I could't believe it.
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Old 13th Feb 2019, 13:22
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Originally Posted by sonicbum View Post
Yes there are, and that is in the CBT as well. in the past 25 years I have seen people coming up with so many funny theories on how to place the hand on the sidestick that I could't believe it.
My initial question was rhetorical, but it's clear that some people are overly concerned with minute details. Not quite 25 years, but I've observed a range of grips. As long as the plane's doing what it's supposed to, I'd like to hope that nobody would tell another crewmember how to hold the sidestick.
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