A320 vortex generator retrofit
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A320 vortex generator retrofit
An interesting concept...
"JetBlue Airways, today announces plans to retrofit its entire Airbus fleet with noise-reducing vortex generators. This move reflects JetBlue’s continued commitment to the communities where its customers and crewmembers live and work. Beginning in 2015, JetBlue began taking delivery of new aircraft with vortex generators already installed. JetBlue is committing to add the devices to its 138 remaining Airbus A320 family aircraft through 2021. The small devices disrupt wind over ports on the wing which can produce a “whistling” tone during approach into an airport.
JetBlue is following the lead of Lufthansa."
Vortex generators will be installed on 130 existing JetBlue A320 aircraft and eight JetBlue A321 aircraft during their existing scheduled heavy checks with the full fleet wide install expected to be complete in 2021. All future Airbus orders will be delivered with vortex generators already installed"
There was the 320 howler, didnt hear about the whistler....
"JetBlue Airways, today announces plans to retrofit its entire Airbus fleet with noise-reducing vortex generators. This move reflects JetBlue’s continued commitment to the communities where its customers and crewmembers live and work. Beginning in 2015, JetBlue began taking delivery of new aircraft with vortex generators already installed. JetBlue is committing to add the devices to its 138 remaining Airbus A320 family aircraft through 2021. The small devices disrupt wind over ports on the wing which can produce a “whistling” tone during approach into an airport.
JetBlue is following the lead of Lufthansa."
Vortex generators will be installed on 130 existing JetBlue A320 aircraft and eight JetBlue A321 aircraft during their existing scheduled heavy checks with the full fleet wide install expected to be complete in 2021. All future Airbus orders will be delivered with vortex generators already installed"
There was the 320 howler, didnt hear about the whistler....
These are the holes which house the fuel tank overpressure ventilation burst discs. I didn't know they made a whistling sound. But then again, an A320 rarely flies over my head on approach.
I think they all have them now. Certainly all the ones I see in the UK.
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The new ones since the introduction of the sharklets (roughly around that time) had those vortex generators, but i noticed that some airlines seem to have retrofitted them on their older ones as well, a large orange one in europe seems to have done that already, but i could be wrong.
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Dave, I do not believe for a second that's how it works. Once installed, it is immediately used for PR selling the good neighborliness factor, yes. Absolutely no issues with that but it does not quench my curiosity.
The costs of certifying an element protruding into the airflow on a wing are huge, and somebody needs to pay for that. Especially if we both guess most will buy it there needs to be a widely applicable positive ROI somewhere. Going one step deeper, the ROI (and a profit margin on top) had surely been identified before authorizing the development of the gadget in the first place.
I am thinking of regulatory compliance with future noise limitations, and wonder what the fuel impact is over a year's worth of flying. That needs to be offset too.
EDIT: silently hoping to be wrong...
The costs of certifying an element protruding into the airflow on a wing are huge, and somebody needs to pay for that. Especially if we both guess most will buy it there needs to be a widely applicable positive ROI somewhere. Going one step deeper, the ROI (and a profit margin on top) had surely been identified before authorizing the development of the gadget in the first place.
I am thinking of regulatory compliance with future noise limitations, and wonder what the fuel impact is over a year's worth of flying. That needs to be offset too.
EDIT: silently hoping to be wrong...
The costs of certifying an element protruding into the airflow on a wing are huge, and somebody needs to pay for that. Especially if we both guess most will buy it there needs to be a widely applicable positive ROI somewhere. Going one step deeper, the ROI (and a profit margin on top) had surely been identified before authorizing the development of the gadget in the first place.
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I believe Lufthansa developed the fix on its own, got it certified and then shared it with Airbus. Lufthansa has some very problematic neighbour relationship at its main hub in Frankfurt, so much so that there is an anti-noise demonstration every Monday evening in the mainly Lufthansa used Terminal 1 of the airport. Every little bit that could seen as helping is therefore welcome. As there is of course some intellectual property rights attached to that fix, Lufthansa could actually earn from every installation as well, which would be a very nice business case in itself, not to mention that they do obviously sell maintenance support, flight planning and charting software as well as crew planning solutions...
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That is a nice 360 solution for Lufty then, well done smart people. Thanks.Though I still have the mirage of a sales presentation with the regulatory bit in it. Or was it a Flight International article a few years back, when the flight tests started?
Last edited by FlightDetent; 11th Oct 2018 at 21:39.
Yes, that's correct. Lufthansa only and ever develop/ push for technical upheavals because they they have ascertained (usually on their own) that it is as a profitable modification to the airframe. In that respect they are pioneers and have always been.
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Airbus certainly won't be giving away the mod kits for free, there will have been a bean-counter involved at some stage.
https://www.businesswire.com/news/ho...tex-Generators
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Gatwick will be charging more airbus aircraft not fitted with the FOPP mod. That factors into the business case.
a320 Whine
https://www.gatwickairport.com/globa...nt-30jan17.pdf
page 15
a320 Whine
https://www.gatwickairport.com/globa...nt-30jan17.pdf
page 15
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Thanks, that explains why the orange cult has been installing them. With the numbers of aircraft they have based in Gatwick it is a very clear business case then.
"Vortex generators will be installed on 130 existing JetBlue A320 aircraft and eight JetBlue A321 aircraft during their existing scheduled heavy checks with the full fleet wide install expected to be complete in 2021. All future Airbus orders will be delivered with vortex generators already installed. The cost to retrofit the full Airbus fleet is less than $1 million."
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Dave, I do not believe for a second that's how it works. Once installed, it is immediately used for PR selling the good neighborliness factor, yes. Absolutely no issues with that but it does not quench my curiosity.
The costs of certifying an element protruding into the airflow on a wing are huge, and somebody needs to pay for that. Especially if we both guess most will buy it there needs to be a widely applicable positive ROI somewhere. Going one step deeper, the ROI (and a profit margin on top) had surely been identified before authorizing the development of the gadget in the first place.
I am thinking of regulatory compliance with future noise limitations, and wonder what the fuel impact is over a year's worth of flying. That needs to be offset too.
EDIT: silently hoping to be wrong...
The costs of certifying an element protruding into the airflow on a wing are huge, and somebody needs to pay for that. Especially if we both guess most will buy it there needs to be a widely applicable positive ROI somewhere. Going one step deeper, the ROI (and a profit margin on top) had surely been identified before authorizing the development of the gadget in the first place.
I am thinking of regulatory compliance with future noise limitations, and wonder what the fuel impact is over a year's worth of flying. That needs to be offset too.
EDIT: silently hoping to be wrong...
No regulatory compliance with future noise limitations are involved: the A32 whine effect does not happen a the certification points.
The technical mod costs 3000$ (Source: Airbus)
The certification cost have been taken over by Airbus. The fuel impact has been computed to be slightly... positive by DLR, who developed the solution.
Lufthansa just contributed slightly upon testing.
The business model might be a bit PR, although I do not either believe for a second that any neighborliness goodwill might ever exist in an airline manager thoughts.
The business model dirty simple: More and more airports are providing a bonus on landing fees to retrofitted planes. Even with a slight fee reduction of only 10$ per operation, the ROI is less than a year.
This is an extremely profitable investment.
Regards
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The fuel impact has been computed to be slightly... positive by DLR, who developed the solution.
Just think if they covered the landing gear!
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We (Lufthansa-group airline) have installed them on all our A320 and as someone who lives directly under the approach path of a nearby airport I can tell you that these vortex generators really make a difference. The whisteling noise is completely gone after the modification.