Cross Wind Landing Technique.
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Cross Wind Landing Technique.
Have a look at this. What amazes me, is the lack of technique, period. What were these people taught at flight school??? Surely they were taught some sort of technique, in kicking the aircraft straight. That is, to have the heading somewhere near the track of the aircraft. on touch down, with the into wind wing down, "slightly".get the into wind wing high, you're in trouble.. Is it the respective company policy, of no crossing of controls before touch down? Which draws me to wonder what these company's published cross wind limits are, or is it "max demonstrated" cross wind. If that is the case, then it is set well above the ability of some of these pilots. I weep with despair at the sight of some of this.. AF takes the biscuit for me. That poor aircraft!!
Before you attempt to flame me, I have many hours on 4 engined, heavy, swept winged aircraft. No I'm not perfect by a long shot but if was unable to, or wasn't allowed to do better I would give it up. Tin hat??
Before you attempt to flame me, I have many hours on 4 engined, heavy, swept winged aircraft. No I'm not perfect by a long shot but if was unable to, or wasn't allowed to do better I would give it up. Tin hat??
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These can't be real aircraft landings. Some are touching even outside the left edge. All of them are should have gone around cases. In 747, only on a wet runway it was recommended to touchdown with the crab. The aircraft would skid a little down the runway and straighten by itself.
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After wasting 3min and 4 sec of my life.... Apart from the very obvious fact that you were watching a computer game, you main concern was crosswind technique? But not the Air France B747 that landed over an aircraft already lined up at the threshold?
This post will go down as one of the Top 5 most Embarrassing posts I have ever seen on PPrune.
This post will go down as one of the Top 5 most Embarrassing posts I have ever seen on PPrune.
All those hours don't seem to have helped your powers of observation...….
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Yes mate that’s real but but what’s the point in your first post?
So the Sim programmer doesn’t know how to create a proper technique video!!
Admit you didn’t realize it was a FS2004 computer generated video and please delete this whole thread mate it’s a joke.
So the Sim programmer doesn’t know how to create a proper technique video!!
Admit you didn’t realize it was a FS2004 computer generated video and please delete this whole thread mate it’s a joke.
Like this you mean? Same thing in'it apart from the 737 holding on the R/W.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtnL4KYVtDE&list=PL83643DB5DA6D09FD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roS6oFjCDhc&t=90s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtnL4KYVtDE&list=PL83643DB5DA6D09FD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roS6oFjCDhc&t=90s
To be fair, most of those landings were reasonable. If you want to see poor technique look no further than this.......
Not to mention the loss of separation. What were the pilots and ATC thinking? Overtime at the tea and biscuit factory I fancy!!
Not to mention the loss of separation. What were the pilots and ATC thinking? Overtime at the tea and biscuit factory I fancy!!
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After wasting 3min and 4 sec of my life.... Apart from the very obvious fact that you were watching a computer game, you main concern was crosswind technique? But not the Air France B747 that landed over an aircraft already lined up at the threshold?
This post will go down as one of the Top 5 most Embarrassing posts I have ever seen on PPrune.
This post will go down as one of the Top 5 most Embarrassing posts I have ever seen on PPrune.
@John_Reid - on the serious side, it comes down the geometry of the specific aircraft type: length of wings relative to landing gear, additional "obstructions" such as below-wing engines, large airline flaps, etc. etc. And manufacturers' recommendations for each of their aircraft types.
When you get the type rating, you learn to do it "the Boeing way" or "the Airbus way" or "the Embraer way" for that aircraft. These days, that is most commonly (but not always) - crab until the flare, and de-crab with rudder while flaring.
Crosswind Landings
Some aircraft require weight-on-wheels for both wheels, or for the wheel that will touch down last in a slip to one side or the other, to activate the deceleration systems (auto-brake, spoilers, reverse thrust). And in some FBW aircraft, aileron control is intentionally limited at low radio altitudes, specifically to prevent a dangerously large bank at touchdown.
Now, that doesn't mean a given pilot can't botch the technique in a given landing, or get caught by a strong gust in the flare that raises a wing or leaves one heading for the grass.
In your post #8 videos, the famous Hamburg incident (video 3) was in winds 28/29 knots gusting to 47 knots, at 60° right of runway heading. Here's a report of what happened, which also quotes the technique recommended by Airbus in the A320 operating manual, and the Airbus limitation of aileron travel to 50% of "full" above 80 knots. Once the wind pushed a wing up, they had little authority to get things back to level.
Report: Lufthansa A320 at Hamburg on Mar 1st 2008, wing touches runway in cross wind landing
In your video 2, could be a gust, or just overdeflection of the rudder, resulting in too much swing with a super-heavy (A380) aircraft with a lot of inertia - it goes past center and zigzags to get back on track.
Video 1, I can't analyze due to distance, but it appears the crew missed the turn to final at old Kai Tak (probably also due to stronger wind than expected) and had little time to get lined up to begin with, and may have also caught a change in the winds in the flare (hilly terrain in 3 quadrants, lot of wind changes in the last 1000 feet down.)
None of those are excuses. Given the conditions or lack of a stable approach, a go-around (as opposed to a slip) may have been the right "corrective action." But the technique of crab/de-crab is used 1000s of times a day - successfully, and appropriately.
When you get the type rating, you learn to do it "the Boeing way" or "the Airbus way" or "the Embraer way" for that aircraft. These days, that is most commonly (but not always) - crab until the flare, and de-crab with rudder while flaring.
Crosswind Landings
Some aircraft require weight-on-wheels for both wheels, or for the wheel that will touch down last in a slip to one side or the other, to activate the deceleration systems (auto-brake, spoilers, reverse thrust). And in some FBW aircraft, aileron control is intentionally limited at low radio altitudes, specifically to prevent a dangerously large bank at touchdown.
Now, that doesn't mean a given pilot can't botch the technique in a given landing, or get caught by a strong gust in the flare that raises a wing or leaves one heading for the grass.
In your post #8 videos, the famous Hamburg incident (video 3) was in winds 28/29 knots gusting to 47 knots, at 60° right of runway heading. Here's a report of what happened, which also quotes the technique recommended by Airbus in the A320 operating manual, and the Airbus limitation of aileron travel to 50% of "full" above 80 knots. Once the wind pushed a wing up, they had little authority to get things back to level.
Report: Lufthansa A320 at Hamburg on Mar 1st 2008, wing touches runway in cross wind landing
In your video 2, could be a gust, or just overdeflection of the rudder, resulting in too much swing with a super-heavy (A380) aircraft with a lot of inertia - it goes past center and zigzags to get back on track.
Video 1, I can't analyze due to distance, but it appears the crew missed the turn to final at old Kai Tak (probably also due to stronger wind than expected) and had little time to get lined up to begin with, and may have also caught a change in the winds in the flare (hilly terrain in 3 quadrants, lot of wind changes in the last 1000 feet down.)
None of those are excuses. Given the conditions or lack of a stable approach, a go-around (as opposed to a slip) may have been the right "corrective action." But the technique of crab/de-crab is used 1000s of times a day - successfully, and appropriately.
Last edited by pattern_is_full; 30th Jul 2018 at 20:00.
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In fairness to the pilot of the Flight Simulator landing in the OP he was probably flying with a joystick...and no rudder pedals. Some joysticks do let you have a rudder axis with the rotation of it but this is a poor substitute for pedals.
Now John, could you send a video of you landing a 4 engined aircraft at the same airport with failure of the rudder on approach. If you survive could you tell us how you managed to yaw.
Now John, could you send a video of you landing a 4 engined aircraft at the same airport with failure of the rudder on approach. If you survive could you tell us how you managed to yaw.
It’s interesting
While crabbing on approach followed by pushing out the drift prior to touchdown with wings level or slight upwind wing down is the most used and recommended technique autoland systems often do it differently, inputting some wing down and opposite rudder well prior to the flare
While we’re on the subject I’d like to encourage the end of the expression ‘kick out the drift’ it’s a terrible description of what you should do, a smooth controlled push of the rudder to align the aircraft with the runway
There’s never a time you should be ‘kicking the rudder’ perhaps it’s just how some describe their input without meaning it literally but others may interpret it as a direction which may well lead to poor results
While crabbing on approach followed by pushing out the drift prior to touchdown with wings level or slight upwind wing down is the most used and recommended technique autoland systems often do it differently, inputting some wing down and opposite rudder well prior to the flare
While we’re on the subject I’d like to encourage the end of the expression ‘kick out the drift’ it’s a terrible description of what you should do, a smooth controlled push of the rudder to align the aircraft with the runway
There’s never a time you should be ‘kicking the rudder’ perhaps it’s just how some describe their input without meaning it literally but others may interpret it as a direction which may well lead to poor results
It’s interesting
While crabbing on approach followed by pushing out the drift prior to touchdown with wings level or slight upwind wing down is the most used and recommended technique autoland systems often do it differently, inputting some wing down and opposite rudder well prior to the flare
While crabbing on approach followed by pushing out the drift prior to touchdown with wings level or slight upwind wing down is the most used and recommended technique autoland systems often do it differently, inputting some wing down and opposite rudder well prior to the flare
What is also inetersting is that it means, on some aircraft, the Auotland has limitations- for instance, the 777 Autoland side-slips, but is limited to 25kts crosswind, because of ground-strike concerns. Crab-decrab is recommended above 25kts and yields a max crosswind limit of 40kts.