How unhealthy is flying/Being a Commercial Pilot?
Murmur
Thanks.
I had various food allergies especially on the death cruiser. The food allergies were manageable until I had an overdose of cortisone injections administered by a French doctor which brought on the gluten allergy.
Sure stress forms part of it..mine was the physical side of it..once I really knew how to fly and didn't have to deal with too many ar@rseholes especially the funny hand shake brigade I found the job great fun.
A few years after I lost my license I flew an 8 hour plus flight in an overloaded glider with the CofG behind the aft datem. Except for hardly being able to walk (I often lock my body using the rudder pedals in turbulence after being knocked semi conscious in the alps) I had no stomach problems. Real stress is flying a paragliding comp in South Africa in mad conditions and hearing the comp director pleading for a rescuer to continue trying to resus a guy I had taken breakfast with. Had a lot of f@@k what do I do now moments especially instructing winching with a 7.2 V8 at the end of 1km length of wire.
My digestion was never a problem then.
Nor was it coastal sailing in sometimes appauling conditions for hours on end.
I still push myself physically, climbing mountains with 20 kgs on my back but it's rare that I can remain for more than an hour and a half flying ..pure fatigue after all I'm 68..very little illness now I don't work and a lot of my travelling is hours in a car.
It narrows it down to commercial flying, what I am breathing, eating away from home, medication (larium) and contacts with Johnnie foreigners diseases.
I had various food allergies especially on the death cruiser. The food allergies were manageable until I had an overdose of cortisone injections administered by a French doctor which brought on the gluten allergy.
Sure stress forms part of it..mine was the physical side of it..once I really knew how to fly and didn't have to deal with too many ar@rseholes especially the funny hand shake brigade I found the job great fun.
A few years after I lost my license I flew an 8 hour plus flight in an overloaded glider with the CofG behind the aft datem. Except for hardly being able to walk (I often lock my body using the rudder pedals in turbulence after being knocked semi conscious in the alps) I had no stomach problems. Real stress is flying a paragliding comp in South Africa in mad conditions and hearing the comp director pleading for a rescuer to continue trying to resus a guy I had taken breakfast with. Had a lot of f@@k what do I do now moments especially instructing winching with a 7.2 V8 at the end of 1km length of wire.
My digestion was never a problem then.
Nor was it coastal sailing in sometimes appauling conditions for hours on end.
I still push myself physically, climbing mountains with 20 kgs on my back but it's rare that I can remain for more than an hour and a half flying ..pure fatigue after all I'm 68..very little illness now I don't work and a lot of my travelling is hours in a car.
It narrows it down to commercial flying, what I am breathing, eating away from home, medication (larium) and contacts with Johnnie foreigners diseases.
I left my last Airline job (and my second) back in early 2006 after a period of depression.. never was diagnosed.. but things came to a head one day and I quit. Although I don't remember most of the days of 2006 and can remember that one and in retrospect wasn't myself for a long time before... nobody reached out... probably didn't realize.
I say quit... I just walked out which wasn't ideal as I then had some pay dispute with the airline who were basically blackmailing me in terms of a reference... so had to pay back many thousands, but they paid for the T/R....
Many of my former colleagues have left flying altogether since, some younger, some older than me, but in the end you only have one life and do you want to spend it all at the pointy end/commuting/down route?
Sometimes have regrets. but then imagine where I would have been now, and much of that regret fades.
I am also a lot healthier now... hate to think how I would be now if that stress continued for years.
I say quit... I just walked out which wasn't ideal as I then had some pay dispute with the airline who were basically blackmailing me in terms of a reference... so had to pay back many thousands, but they paid for the T/R....
Many of my former colleagues have left flying altogether since, some younger, some older than me, but in the end you only have one life and do you want to spend it all at the pointy end/commuting/down route?
Sometimes have regrets. but then imagine where I would have been now, and much of that regret fades.
I am also a lot healthier now... hate to think how I would be now if that stress continued for years.
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Vokes55 said "Stress". Let us examine stress. Good stress or bad stress? A suspension bridge needs stress. You must mean undue stress. Elements such as random demands, unrealistic goals and irritating stimuli is a prescription for "stress". Jobs where you have little if any control are inherently "stressful". Stress is necessary for counter effort to take place, and therefore an accomplishment of sorts, i.e. work will take place. Stress is like friction, as friction is necessary to conquer a hill. Things that happen to you that are beyond your control are indeed stressful. Even a surprise birthday party and a lottery windfall are "stressful". It is good stress, but it is "stress" just the same. Your heart and endocrine system may not know the difference between good and bad "stress".. NASA's Space Lab observed ants in zero gravity become apathetic and their legs atrophy due to a lack of "stress". They have no hill to build.
Last edited by evansb; 19th Mar 2018 at 00:46.
re radiation due to high altitude flying.
In the 90s some airlines started issuing radiation exposure badges to the crews, I know Fedex had them, but this has not spread to the other airlines.
Was there a study made? I would imagine it would be easy to compile data based on the amount of exposure on the returned badges.
Anilv
In the 90s some airlines started issuing radiation exposure badges to the crews, I know Fedex had them, but this has not spread to the other airlines.
Was there a study made? I would imagine it would be easy to compile data based on the amount of exposure on the returned badges.
Anilv
Radiation
Lufthansa union did a study in the 80s but after the initial results the company stopped it.
Flew with a Swiss guy who had his own meter and we generally flew lower than planned..sod the fuel.
Ifalpa did a study around the same time but management removed the copies within a couple of days.
Later we were restricted on polar flights and number of high altitude crossings.
Flew with a Swiss guy who had his own meter and we generally flew lower than planned..sod the fuel.
Ifalpa did a study around the same time but management removed the copies within a couple of days.
Later we were restricted on polar flights and number of high altitude crossings.
There have been umpteen studies done on radiation, there is ongoing work...there is plenty of stuff out there in the public domain but you need to know the subject to know what to Google.... That said the data and conclusions as to the effects of radiation exposure at cruise levels (mainly derived from the epidemology) can appear somewhat inconvenient to some....which is perhaps you'll often hear stories about results being hidden or buried becasue that suits some narratives...but the truth is "out there".....
If you want to track your own exposure you can, using this...
https://www.faa.gov/data_research/re...biology/cari6/
We can also access our own personal data via our company webiste, and if so minded cross check it by running your own flight profiles through your very own CARI or similar programs....
As I heard it the reason for the badges was the cargo Fedex (potentially) carried..and on the subject of badges certainly the older film badges didn't really give much of a clue as to total exposure at the sort of levels we get in cruising flight due to Cosmic and other radiation ( hence the development of programs such as CARI in it's various iterations).
I'm sure flying for a living has it's consequences, I suspect mainly due to rostering, sleep patterns, diet, lack of exercise...some of this is down to individual control, some of it goes "with the territory"....some ill health is down to the genes ( been there, done that, got the scars) . Now whether everybody here wants to loose sleep worrying about whether this job is going to let you live forever is down to the individual but beyond avoiding the obvious and lobbying (via a union, if you have one) I don't see the point in fretting about the subject... I'm sure there are health consequences to other jobs, e.g. working at heights as a builder, working as a policeman, or commuting into/out of or around e.g. London on a daily basis....without belittling the possible impact of this job there problems associated with other lines of work and we perhaps need to look at the whole deal and do a bit of cost v. benefits analysis.
If you want to track your own exposure you can, using this...
https://www.faa.gov/data_research/re...biology/cari6/
We can also access our own personal data via our company webiste, and if so minded cross check it by running your own flight profiles through your very own CARI or similar programs....
In the 90s some airlines started issuing radiation exposure badges to the crews, I know Fedex had them, but this has not spread to the other airlines.
I'm sure flying for a living has it's consequences, I suspect mainly due to rostering, sleep patterns, diet, lack of exercise...some of this is down to individual control, some of it goes "with the territory"....some ill health is down to the genes ( been there, done that, got the scars) . Now whether everybody here wants to loose sleep worrying about whether this job is going to let you live forever is down to the individual but beyond avoiding the obvious and lobbying (via a union, if you have one) I don't see the point in fretting about the subject... I'm sure there are health consequences to other jobs, e.g. working at heights as a builder, working as a policeman, or commuting into/out of or around e.g. London on a daily basis....without belittling the possible impact of this job there problems associated with other lines of work and we perhaps need to look at the whole deal and do a bit of cost v. benefits analysis.
Last edited by wiggy; 20th Mar 2018 at 07:59.
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Every career has its health hazard. Even the seamstress getting stabbed by a dirty needle and thread. In the sixties, when pilots had to retire at 60 in the US, there was a study that the average life expectancy after retirement was THREE years. Smoke, drink and have another kilo of beef life style. My first multi crew airplane, I was the only non-smoker. Two guys up front chain smoking from gear up to landing flaps. Walking 50 feet from the aircraft a lighting up and waiting for transport to the hotel for another round of drinks and steaks.
As a side note, I would often entertain myself by cleaning all the glass gauges. Wondered why the little whippy was always coming off yellow. Then, oh, that's the same color coming out the pressure valve back on the tail, yellow nicotine.
As the career progress, I'd always bid trips that departed about 10 in the morning, fly about two or three legs, each day and be home three days latter before dinner.
Actually the most dangerous part was driving on the express way, to and from the airport.
As a side note, I would often entertain myself by cleaning all the glass gauges. Wondered why the little whippy was always coming off yellow. Then, oh, that's the same color coming out the pressure valve back on the tail, yellow nicotine.
As the career progress, I'd always bid trips that departed about 10 in the morning, fly about two or three legs, each day and be home three days latter before dinner.
Actually the most dangerous part was driving on the express way, to and from the airport.
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The vast majority of people with desk jobs who happen to change their place of work... they move out to their new town and wouldn't even think about commuting several hundreds of kilometers.
Mustangsally - very much agree with your observations about how it was “back in the day”.
Much the same here....vividly remember on one Africa trip a pair of chain smokers (the captain and the flight engineer) sitting in a cloud of cigarette smoke over a meal, sinking their n’th scotch whilst at the same time being very vocal about the risks of this job and how work was going to impact on their longevity.....and of course as for the radiation worries, well let’s say they weren’t worried enough to wear either hats or sunscreen for their round of golf the next day 
Don’t get me wrong, It is good we are better informed these days, but there’s a danger of perhaps being overly obsessive.
My first multi crew airplane, I was the only non-smoker. Two guys up front chain smoking from gear up to landing flaps. Walking 50 feet from the aircraft a lighting up and waiting for transport to the hotel for another round of drinks and steaks
Don’t get me wrong, It is good we are better informed these days, but there’s a danger of perhaps being overly obsessive.
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I was once given a radiation rule of thumb but cannot recall the exact figure, but for some reason 1 millirem per 1,000 miles comes to mind.
That might indeed be a “rule of thumb” but it’s coarse at best.
FWIW when I spent a year logging this a typical Europe to Eastern USA flight was “worth” typically 50 -60 micro sieverts, west coast US into Europe over Hudson’s Bay might be 80 plus on a bad day, but it was highly highly dependant on flight levels used , magnetic latitudes and the Sun’s output on the day ( and as an aside FWIW during solar max our exposure to cosmic rays is reduced, though we may be more exposed to the Sun’s own products, so it is all very much non linear).
CARI factors the above in it’s calculations, and a full time, full “spectrum” measuring device might be even more useful.....so it’s fairly straightforward to get a rough handle on the amount we get exposed to....but as for effects on health, well as a doc said to me a while back about the incidence of a particular cancer, and I paraphrase, “like most cancers it’s more than likely down to your relatives rather than your job...”.
FWIW when I spent a year logging this a typical Europe to Eastern USA flight was “worth” typically 50 -60 micro sieverts, west coast US into Europe over Hudson’s Bay might be 80 plus on a bad day, but it was highly highly dependant on flight levels used , magnetic latitudes and the Sun’s output on the day ( and as an aside FWIW during solar max our exposure to cosmic rays is reduced, though we may be more exposed to the Sun’s own products, so it is all very much non linear).
CARI factors the above in it’s calculations, and a full time, full “spectrum” measuring device might be even more useful.....so it’s fairly straightforward to get a rough handle on the amount we get exposed to....but as for effects on health, well as a doc said to me a while back about the incidence of a particular cancer, and I paraphrase, “like most cancers it’s more than likely down to your relatives rather than your job...”.
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The altitude difference to achieve the same exposure rates at the equator and northern hemisphere flights is 10,000 - 15,000’.
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If you want to track your own exposure you can, using this...
https://www.faa.gov/data_research/re...biology/cari6/
We can also access our own personal data via our company webiste, and if so minded cross check it by running your own flight profiles through your very own CARI or similar programs....”
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The radiation risk is relatively low. Study after study shows that. Not zero, but low. And the studies show increased longevity but the possibility of an increased risk of death from 2-3 different cancers. Keep in mind no one gets off the ship alive.
If you want to help your longevity avoid sweating over things beyond your control, worrying about falsehoods, or having people pray for you when you’re sick. But do get a dog, or two.
Long-Awaited Medical Study Questions the Power of Prayer - The New York Times
Dog ownership = 10% less heart attack risk, better mobility, etc.
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Mentally and physically, I reckon 36 years flying was less tiring and damaging than , say, 36 years working in a steel mill or down a coal mine....But much more so than 36 years working a 9 to 5 office job, five days every week, no weekends, etc....
Having said that....All 36 years were on TPs and undoubtedly resulted in what is now impaired hearing - not deafness, but my final medical a couple of years ago, the Dr told me that I now have only about 55% hearing levels compared to that 9 to 5 office worker.
Having said that....All 36 years were on TPs and undoubtedly resulted in what is now impaired hearing - not deafness, but my final medical a couple of years ago, the Dr told me that I now have only about 55% hearing levels compared to that 9 to 5 office worker.
I believe that I mentioned some time ago that I never found flying, civ or mil, stressful - just that a very few of the people made it appear to be so. 
p.s. Hussar, Could depend on the people in the 9 to 5 office job
p.s. Hussar, Could depend on the people in the 9 to 5 office job
