Airbus FMGS DIFRISP to DIFSRIP
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Airbus FMGS DIFRISP to DIFSRIP
Does anyone know the reason why airbus changed the order recommended to load the FMGC around a little while back?
Why does the secondary now need to be filled before the rad nav page whereas before the recommendation was to fill out the rad nav page before the secondary?
Does an engine out SID have any influence over the rad nav page?
Why does the secondary now need to be filled before the rad nav page whereas before the recommendation was to fill out the rad nav page before the secondary?
Does an engine out SID have any influence over the rad nav page?
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The change is only in mnemonics. In DIFRIP the F always meant primary and secondary flight plan where it was possible to forget the secondary. in DIFSRIP it is easy to remember that there are two flight plans
Yes.
If your emergency turn takes place at a set distance from a DME, or you are proceeding to a VOR/NDB or radial/distance to hold, then I am going to be putting that in the RadNav page. Especially if the SID doesn't require any hard tuning of navaids. Often the navaids auto-tuned in the box are not the ones you need for the EOSID.
Whilst it is in the secondary, and when the Bus loses an engine it should overlay the secondary onto your ND, I still would like raw data backup there ready. Just incase.
An EFATO, especially with a critical emergency turn is not the time to be relying on something with no redundancy because you've not set it up. (I've had in the sim in the past where the other guy has hit Delete Secondary instead of Activate Secondary. It wasn't a big deal because I was already following the raw data. It could have been a bigger deal if I hadn't though)
If your emergency turn takes place at a set distance from a DME, or you are proceeding to a VOR/NDB or radial/distance to hold, then I am going to be putting that in the RadNav page. Especially if the SID doesn't require any hard tuning of navaids. Often the navaids auto-tuned in the box are not the ones you need for the EOSID.
Whilst it is in the secondary, and when the Bus loses an engine it should overlay the secondary onto your ND, I still would like raw data backup there ready. Just incase.
An EFATO, especially with a critical emergency turn is not the time to be relying on something with no redundancy because you've not set it up. (I've had in the sim in the past where the other guy has hit Delete Secondary instead of Activate Secondary. It wasn't a big deal because I was already following the raw data. It could have been a bigger deal if I hadn't though)
Ah I misunderstood then.
I don't know if it does influence it, certainly from experience if there are multiple terrestrial navaids nearby, it doesn't seem to always pick the most useful ones, whether thats for the normal SID or the EOSID.
I don't know if it does influence it, certainly from experience if there are multiple terrestrial navaids nearby, it doesn't seem to always pick the most useful ones, whether thats for the normal SID or the EOSID.
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Hello,
a bit late reply..
My OMB says:
"if the FUEL MODE SEL pb-sw is unduly left in the MAN position on ground, when the CTR TK L+R XFR pb-sw are not in the OFF position, there is the possibility of fuel spillage. In this configuration, the center tank fuel transfer will not stop when the wing tank become full."
Cheers
a bit late reply..
My OMB says:
"if the FUEL MODE SEL pb-sw is unduly left in the MAN position on ground, when the CTR TK L+R XFR pb-sw are not in the OFF position, there is the possibility of fuel spillage. In this configuration, the center tank fuel transfer will not stop when the wing tank become full."
Cheers
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Ultimately, it's only guidance. I used to do DATA, INIT A, INIT B, FPLN, RAD NAV, PROG, PERF, FUEL PRED (ie, INIT B now route data is in), and then SEC. Made a hat shape on the buttons. My brain doesn't work with mnemonics.
At least Airbus offers guidance. The Boeing FMC starts well with prompts leading you through each step and then sort of peters out just as you approach the critical data entry point. I'm always wondering what I've forgotten to do.
At least Airbus offers guidance. The Boeing FMC starts well with prompts leading you through each step and then sort of peters out just as you approach the critical data entry point. I'm always wondering what I've forgotten to do.
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Llama Farmer
Your comment below is , with respect nonsense . One of the nicest features of the Airbus is the EOSID database is independent of the Secondary .In the event ECAM detects ENG FAIL .The EOSID in the Nav Database will appear as a TMPY flight plan REGARDLESS of what is in the secondary flight plan which can be inserted from the MCDU or flown around in heading . If there is a common waypoint in your SID and EOSID then NAV is immediately available and away you go .
The EOSID has NO relationship to the secondary unless you programme it to have an EOSID in it . If you don't the EOSID is always available when ECAM detects ENG FAIL .
This is one of the most mis-understood aspects of the Airbus FMGC , i have pointed this out to dozens if not hundreds of colleagues over the years .
Easy easy to check my thesis above .
On Ground , Delete secondary , select PLAN on your NAV display , look at departure airport end of the FLT PLN , low and behold .Yellow EOSID line .
Have explained this to countless TRI /TRE etc over the years as well .
"Yes.
If your emergency turn takes place at a set distance from a DME, or you are proceeding to a VOR/NDB or radial/distance to hold, then I am going to be putting that in the RadNav page. Especially if the SID doesn't require any hard tuning of navaids. Often the navaids auto-tuned in the box are not the ones you need for the EOSID.
Whilst it is in the secondary, and when the Bus loses an engine it should overlay the secondary onto your ND, I still would like raw data backup there ready. Just incase.
An EFATO, especially with a critical emergency turn is not the time to be relying on something with no redundancy because you've not set it up. (I've had in the sim in the past where the other guy has hit Delete Secondary instead of Activate Secondary. It wasn't a big deal because I was already following the raw data. It could have been a bigger deal if I hadn't though)"
Your comment below is , with respect nonsense . One of the nicest features of the Airbus is the EOSID database is independent of the Secondary .In the event ECAM detects ENG FAIL .The EOSID in the Nav Database will appear as a TMPY flight plan REGARDLESS of what is in the secondary flight plan which can be inserted from the MCDU or flown around in heading . If there is a common waypoint in your SID and EOSID then NAV is immediately available and away you go .
The EOSID has NO relationship to the secondary unless you programme it to have an EOSID in it . If you don't the EOSID is always available when ECAM detects ENG FAIL .
This is one of the most mis-understood aspects of the Airbus FMGC , i have pointed this out to dozens if not hundreds of colleagues over the years .
Easy easy to check my thesis above .
On Ground , Delete secondary , select PLAN on your NAV display , look at departure airport end of the FLT PLN , low and behold .Yellow EOSID line .
Have explained this to countless TRI /TRE etc over the years as well .
"Yes.
If your emergency turn takes place at a set distance from a DME, or you are proceeding to a VOR/NDB or radial/distance to hold, then I am going to be putting that in the RadNav page. Especially if the SID doesn't require any hard tuning of navaids. Often the navaids auto-tuned in the box are not the ones you need for the EOSID.
Whilst it is in the secondary, and when the Bus loses an engine it should overlay the secondary onto your ND, I still would like raw data backup there ready. Just incase.
An EFATO, especially with a critical emergency turn is not the time to be relying on something with no redundancy because you've not set it up. (I've had in the sim in the past where the other guy has hit Delete Secondary instead of Activate Secondary. It wasn't a big deal because I was already following the raw data. It could have been a bigger deal if I hadn't though)"
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Partially correct. When an EO is detected, yes the EOSID will be displayed on the ND.
However a TMPY FPL with an *insert prompt will appear only when a common leg/waypoint exists between the SID and EOSID before the diversion point. This is a design feature but only on few occasions will you be able to see this at work. In your network (easyjet) you will be able to see this off LEMD 36L where SSY is a common waypoint for both the SID and the EOSID.
However a TMPY FPL with an *insert prompt will appear only when a common leg/waypoint exists between the SID and EOSID before the diversion point. This is a design feature but only on few occasions will you be able to see this at work. In your network (easyjet) you will be able to see this off LEMD 36L where SSY is a common waypoint for both the SID and the EOSID.
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Isn't the point that the OP and responders seem to think that the Secondary is the source of the EOSID , which i incorrect . Secondly that as you say the ND will always display the yellow EOSID for you to fly if ENG FAIL is detected ?
You are correct on your expansion of my point , i prefer your explanation of the common waypoints and the divergent point . Ta !
I'm still amazed by the folks out there with thousands of hours on type who don't know about this feature .
You are correct on your expansion of my point , i prefer your explanation of the common waypoints and the divergent point . Ta !
I'm still amazed by the folks out there with thousands of hours on type who don't know about this feature .
Only half a speed-brake
70% of worlds fleet is not utilizing the EOSID feature. And that for very practical and valid reasons. When needed, just punch the EFP into the secondary, and then have the NAVAIDS hardtuned, now and then.
Some of us use the EOSID term, instead of the proper EFP one. There is nothing Standard about the, for starters. I can see how that got you confused and make misinterpret the previous posts.
It seems though you never checked why you are the unique one among the TREs?
Some of us use the EOSID term, instead of the proper EFP one. There is nothing Standard about the, for starters. I can see how that got you confused and make misinterpret the previous posts.
It seems though you never checked why you are the unique one among the TREs?
@ Nil Further,
We flew A320, 321, and 330, but I have never seen EOSID. Nor, for that matter EFP. We just had Flight plan and Secondary flight plan.
If there was a complicated emergency turn/SID, we would construct it in the Secondary.
Perhaps EOSID is only a customer option or a relatively modern development?
We flew A320, 321, and 330, but I have never seen EOSID. Nor, for that matter EFP. We just had Flight plan and Secondary flight plan.
If there was a complicated emergency turn/SID, we would construct it in the Secondary.
Perhaps EOSID is only a customer option or a relatively modern development?
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Dunno about any of that ?
Ive been flyings the Airbus for 12 years only the Honeywell FMGS equipped version and its always had the EOSID feature .I think you are correct that it is a customer option ..
My understanding of the Secondary design was flexibility to construct alternative departure routings and runways before engine start and indeed I'm told that many colleagues in North America use precisely this function as they operate a lot from multi runway airfields .
Either way interesting stuff but I do remain surprised by the amount of people operating the aircraft equipped with this feature who have no idea what it is or its independence from whatever is in the Secondary .
Safe Flying to all .
Ive been flyings the Airbus for 12 years only the Honeywell FMGS equipped version and its always had the EOSID feature .I think you are correct that it is a customer option ..
My understanding of the Secondary design was flexibility to construct alternative departure routings and runways before engine start and indeed I'm told that many colleagues in North America use precisely this function as they operate a lot from multi runway airfields .
Either way interesting stuff but I do remain surprised by the amount of people operating the aircraft equipped with this feature who have no idea what it is or its independence from whatever is in the Secondary .
Safe Flying to all .
We had both THALES and Honeywell, but no EOSID.
Regarding your last paragraph; I once started a thread on a company forum for pilots to write about tech stuff including features and shortcuts they had discovered in the FMGC/S. It was not popular with the managers for some reason, and got killed off.
Regarding your last paragraph; I once started a thread on a company forum for pilots to write about tech stuff including features and shortcuts they had discovered in the FMGC/S. It was not popular with the managers for some reason, and got killed off.
