Questions you had never asked before about B737
I do too, I enjoy setting up a bank angle on a base turn to land using it. I think I've read somewhere that on the -200's that it was all the automatics that they had originally ..... that could well be incorrect, it's just an impression I had.
The early 200 series had no vertical autopilot coupled modes, only CWS pitch. They did have alt hold, but some installations were so primitive that they required the pilot to engage it on reaching the required level-off. With no auto throttle either, so all climbs and descents required one pilot's hands on the wheel or ready to make corrections at all times. It was generally stable enough to allow one to finish that last cup of coffee.
BOAC, those days bred good handling and awareness, didn't they?
BOAC, those days bred good handling and awareness, didn't they?
Last edited by Mach E Avelli; 25th Apr 2014 at 21:38.
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 166
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
On Britannia Airways 737-200s only the Captain had HDG SEL. The F/O only had CWS in both lateral and vertical axes. Passing the Command Course meant both a pay rise and the luxury of HDG SEL! Alt Hld had to be manually engaged on reaching assigned level, having reduced the rate of climb/descent using CWS. No V/S mode either, but we did have VOR/LOC. All selected through massive rotary switches which engaged with a satisfying clunk. Ah...those were the days!
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Derbyshire, England.
Posts: 4,091
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Would you care to provide a probable scenario where an engine separation would cause a dual bleed duct leak (and resulting pressurization failure) on B737?
No, I really can't. We had the scenario given to us in the B744 SIM where an inboard engine broke away, up came all the messages, including fire warning at the top, it was played through to the end with us not jumping on the bleed leak, just to emphasis what would happen, I thought this might carry over to the B737 but obviously it doesn't!
I think this would be a good time for me to quietly slip out the door, unnoticed!
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: glendale
Posts: 819
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
centaurus, I'm sure you didn't mean decades of experience designing jet transports. the 737 came around in the 67 , so you are saying that boeing was busy designing jet transports about the time it was building B29s. While it was working on the B47, the 707 came much later.
Douglas had a much nicer autopilot. You want to hold pitch? Select Pitch Hold. Wow. Want to turn? Twist a knob. Want to hold speed? Select Speed or Mach hold. And the comparable douglas flew before the 737.
The CWS is a mystery of a waste. And I've seen new copilots land in CWS NOT KNOWING they were on autopilot. SHEESH!
Douglas had a much nicer autopilot. You want to hold pitch? Select Pitch Hold. Wow. Want to turn? Twist a knob. Want to hold speed? Select Speed or Mach hold. And the comparable douglas flew before the 737.
The CWS is a mystery of a waste. And I've seen new copilots land in CWS NOT KNOWING they were on autopilot. SHEESH!
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Ankh Morpork, DW
Posts: 652
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And I've seen new copilots land in CWS NOT KNOWING they were on autopilot. SHEESH!
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kabul, Afghanistan
Age: 40
Posts: 274
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well if you loose one generator, the other side is going to supply the failed side by means of cross-ties, and then there is the APU. Assuming APU not connected or available when you do the checklist, I reckon Boeing has a nice philosophy for checklist I mean every step and checklist directs you to other portion of checklist if required to be carried out.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: nowhere
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
On Britannia Airways 737-200s only the Captain had HDG SEL. The F/O only had CWS in both lateral and vertical axes.
Alt Hld had to be manually engaged on reaching assigned level, having reduced the rate of climb/descent using CWS. No V/S mode either, but we did have VOR/LOC. All selected through massive rotary switches which engaged with a satisfying clunk. Ah...those were the days!
Alt Hld had to be manually engaged on reaching assigned level, having reduced the rate of climb/descent using CWS. No V/S mode either, but we did have VOR/LOC. All selected through massive rotary switches which engaged with a satisfying clunk. Ah...those were the days!
Plus in the sim, we knew that on the circling approach,we had a good chance of getting a missed approach with an engine failure so the autopilot was left on during final as low as possible. If no missed given, disengage in the flare, if a missed approach given, you now had an easy and smoothly done way to level off for acceleration by quickly selecting Alt Hold when at acceleration height. Perhaps more of a sim thing.
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I guess what the thread starter means is that the transfer bus remains failed after the NNC (half of the overhead panel lights ON ) .
What I would do is check the checklists at least and apply some common sense on which checklists to do. That way you have an idea which systems you have left. IMO it is one of the most tricky failures on the 737.
PS: A nasty result of a transfer bus 2 failure is that the flap indicator does not work anymore. Some crews mistakenly see this as flaps not working anymore... Amber bar on PFD still shows correctly and will move when flaps come out.
) . What I would do is check the checklists at least and apply some common sense on which checklists to do. That way you have an idea which systems you have left. IMO it is one of the most tricky failures on the 737.
PS: A nasty result of a transfer bus 2 failure is that the flap indicator does not work anymore. Some crews mistakenly see this as flaps not working anymore... Amber bar on PFD still shows correctly and will move when flaps come out.
The 737 does require a bit of old-fashioned systems knowledge since it lacks a spoon-feeder (EICAS). I like flying things with EICAS or ECAM, but am comfortable enough in the physical world to know when a major failure will manifest itself in related sub-systems warnings. As should anybody who has a driver's licence, to say nothing of a pilot's certificate.
Sometimes deep science on the flight deck is useful, but often an imperfect systems understanding can lead you astray. The designers thought of most things that need redundancy or check valves or relays. But it is always useful to workshop scenarios both to review systems knowledge and to exercise your planning and adaptation muscles.
Control Wheel Steering....the -200 F/Os only mode. It may surprise some Boeing pilots to learn that the Airbus FBW performs exactly like CWS...take your hands off and it just keeps doing the last thing you commanded.
Sometimes deep science on the flight deck is useful, but often an imperfect systems understanding can lead you astray. The designers thought of most things that need redundancy or check valves or relays. But it is always useful to workshop scenarios both to review systems knowledge and to exercise your planning and adaptation muscles.
Control Wheel Steering....the -200 F/Os only mode. It may surprise some Boeing pilots to learn that the Airbus FBW performs exactly like CWS...take your hands off and it just keeps doing the last thing you commanded.
Join Date: Jun 1996
Location: Check with Ops
Posts: 741
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CWS is an excellent tool when using the Unreliable Airspeed checklist. Set the attitude and power and just monitor the performance instruments. Much easier than having to actually hand-fly the attitude. I know, I know, Skygods; before the inevitable bitchy remarks about how we should all be able to hand fly to within a gnat's 
I'm saying it's just easier to let the plane take the strain, not that I can't hand fly and that CWS is a great way to do it.
I'm saying it's just easier to let the plane take the strain, not that I can't hand fly and that CWS is a great way to do it.
Join Date: May 2008
Location: sg
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have 2 items in the 737 Classic cockpit that none that I spoke to is able to answer. They are trivial but will be nice to know.
What it is call "Dome White" and not Dome light? Specifically, the light is not even white..
The other is about the flaps 2. Is it carried over from the 737-100s? We have used flaps 10 occasionally when the aircraft ahead is closing in on approach and we do not want to use Flaps 15 without gear down but why is there a Flaps 2?
What it is call "Dome White" and not Dome light? Specifically, the light is not even white..
The other is about the flaps 2. Is it carried over from the 737-100s? We have used flaps 10 occasionally when the aircraft ahead is closing in on approach and we do not want to use Flaps 15 without gear down but why is there a Flaps 2?
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: last time I looked I was still here.
Posts: 4,507
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Flaps 2, in a fixed speed schedule, is 180kts. This could often be an ATC requirement on approach. In the very early days I've no idea if there was any advantage gained for a F2 takeoff. I never saw any figures for this, but that was in 80"s.
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 18,579
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Australopithecus
It may surprise some Boeing pilots to learn that the Airbus FBW performs exactly like CWS...take your hands off and it just keeps doing the last thing you commanded.
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: IRS NAV ONLY
Posts: 1,230
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by RAT 5
Flaps 2, in a fixed speed schedule, is 180kts. This could often be an ATC requirement on approach.
CWS can also be used in CWS P mode when in climb - to compensate for VNAV (MCP) SPD incompetence
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: I wouldn't know.
Posts: 4,497
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To be honest i don't use 2 all that often, but it is sometimes useful. 10 and 25 on the other hand are normal take off flap settings and therefore used quite often. Much less often during approach though, although it can be sometimes advantageous to do so.
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Another Planet.
Posts: 559
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The 73NG, when locked onto the standard 3* G/S, will run away with the speed, unless
1. The headwind component is in the teens
or
2. Flap 10 is selected, much to the horror of those who exclaim "that's non-standard!" (My reply is "why did Mr Boeing bolt in that there slot?!")
Just another piece of info for the uninitiated when they start to fly this slippery beast!n
1. The headwind component is in the teens
or
2. Flap 10 is selected, much to the horror of those who exclaim "that's non-standard!" (My reply is "why did Mr Boeing bolt in that there slot?!")
Just another piece of info for the uninitiated when they start to fly this slippery beast!
n
Flap 2 - aka "the gentleman's flap"
I find it very useful. Either if given speed 180 at high weights with the '1' speed around 190ish, or as another method of losing excess height. Rather than speedbrake clean/250 knots, using F2 220/230 knots is a very effective way of getting back on profile (~1500fpm) and smoother than using the speedbrake.
I use Flap 10 almost daily on the NG, and Flap 2 at least a few times a week. Flap 30 is fairly often required as an intermediate setting if you've got a bit of a tailwind trying to make the gate for F40 too.
Now if anyone can tell me how to consistently grease Flap 40 landings...
I find it very useful. Either if given speed 180 at high weights with the '1' speed around 190ish, or as another method of losing excess height. Rather than speedbrake clean/250 knots, using F2 220/230 knots is a very effective way of getting back on profile (~1500fpm) and smoother than using the speedbrake.
I use Flap 10 almost daily on the NG, and Flap 2 at least a few times a week. Flap 30 is fairly often required as an intermediate setting if you've got a bit of a tailwind trying to make the gate for F40 too.
Now if anyone can tell me how to consistently grease Flap 40 landings...