Kathmandu operation with atr72 or turboprops
Guest
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: On the Beach
Posts: 3,336
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
jackcarl:
The performance model was built around the existing equipage for modern heavy iron: dual FMS, dual auto-flight, dual A/T and most expensive, three IRUs.
The concession was made for "entry level" RNP AR by not requiring one or more IRUs provided no approach segment is less than 0.30 and the missed approach is convention TERPs/PANS-OPs.
Thus, the bar is set very high indeed. In the U.S. at least most corporate operators have all the equipage beg off because of the very high administrative burdens set by the FAA (not so high for airlines with large flight technical staffs and a limited number of RNAP AR approaches in their ops specs).
The equipment required for RNP approaches alone costed more than some of the domestic aircrafts used in Nepal.
The performance model was built around the existing equipage for modern heavy iron: dual FMS, dual auto-flight, dual A/T and most expensive, three IRUs.
The concession was made for "entry level" RNP AR by not requiring one or more IRUs provided no approach segment is less than 0.30 and the missed approach is convention TERPs/PANS-OPs.
Thus, the bar is set very high indeed. In the U.S. at least most corporate operators have all the equipage beg off because of the very high administrative burdens set by the FAA (not so high for airlines with large flight technical staffs and a limited number of RNAP AR approaches in their ops specs).
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: PA
Age: 59
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
jack,
The trees were there in 2010 when I did the first RNP-AR procedsure through the gap.
In regards to cost, some aircraft manufacturers are including RNP procedures in the box to sell aircraft.. Similar situation at WAMM and WAPP.
The trees were there in 2010 when I did the first RNP-AR procedsure through the gap.
In regards to cost, some aircraft manufacturers are including RNP procedures in the box to sell aircraft.. Similar situation at WAMM and WAPP.
Guest
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: On the Beach
Posts: 3,336
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Underfire:
Speaking only for "N" registered airplanes, the FAA requires that database and FMS vendors not include RNP AR IAPs in the database unless the operator and aircraft are RNP AR qualified. The procedures have to go through a second validation including "flyability" for each type of FMS before the RNP ARs can be added to the FMS database. Again, this is a straight forward process for air carriers, but not so for business aviation.
For the relatively few business aviation operators that have the OEM qualified airframe and avionics, and the operator elects to pursue the qualification, the validation process is sold by Honeywell and Jeppesen.
In regards to cost, some aircraft manufacturers are including RNP procedures in the box to sell aircraft..
For the relatively few business aviation operators that have the OEM qualified airframe and avionics, and the operator elects to pursue the qualification, the validation process is sold by Honeywell and Jeppesen.
Aterpster
Curious, the Honeywell FMS DB on the Global Express had a variety of clearly RNAV AR (RNP) approaches loaded for KASE despite no Globals were, at the time, approved for AR approaches. Handy for daylight VMC Roaring Fork Visuals, though
Speaking only for "N" registered airplanes, the FAA requires that database and FMS vendors not include RNP AR IAPs in the database unless the operator and aircraft are RNP AR qualified. The procedures have to go through a second validation including "flyability" for each type of FMS before the RNP ARs can be added to the FMS database. Again, this is a straight forward process for air carriers, but not so for business aviation.
Guest
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: On the Beach
Posts: 3,336
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
g.f.
What's more curious is that KASE so far has not had any public RNP AR approaches. Those had to be specials and likely a database or FMS vendor screw up.
Curious, the Honeywell FMS DB on the Global Express had a variety of clearly RNAV AR (RNP) approaches loaded for KASE despite no Globals were, at the time, approved for AR approaches. Handy for daylight VMC Roaring Fork Visuals, though
What's more curious is that KASE so far has not had any public RNP AR approaches. Those had to be specials and likely a database or FMS vendor screw up.
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: FL250
Age: 43
Posts: 153
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
underfire: Yes the trees are gone. Flew there in 2012. Kathmandu went on a major overhaul with the roads. so a lot of trees are gone.
I think the RNP approach is a great benefit and helps more airliners to fly into kathmandu with lower DA compared to the VOR approach and thus decreasing the delays and diversions.
Most newer aircraft are equipped for RNP but some operators even the National Career the aircrafts are not equipped with the equipment.
But anyway, things are getting better. I flew for four years in Nepal. I guess we flew so often in nepal and mostly little aircraft, that everything seemed easy and became second nature. Flying into kathmandu is so much easier then flying into Lukla.
I think the RNP approach is a great benefit and helps more airliners to fly into kathmandu with lower DA compared to the VOR approach and thus decreasing the delays and diversions.
Most newer aircraft are equipped for RNP but some operators even the National Career the aircrafts are not equipped with the equipment.
But anyway, things are getting better. I flew for four years in Nepal. I guess we flew so often in nepal and mostly little aircraft, that everything seemed easy and became second nature. Flying into kathmandu is so much easier then flying into Lukla.
Guest
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: On the Beach
Posts: 3,336
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
underfire:
I recall something along that line for NetJet. I don't believe it was never approved, though.
You are using "tailored" differently than those I work with do. The Net Jet procedure was a special instrument approach procedure, which Jeppesen would have issued as a tailored chart. A special is always a tailored chart but a tailored chart does not have to be a special procedure. In the latter case a customer, typically an airline, requests that Jeppesen tailor the chart for a public procedure, perhaps to reflect more conservative minimums or perhaps to include a company note, etc.
But, I suspect you already know all of this. Forums are a very imperfect method of communication technical information.
There was a tailored RNP-AR procedure designed for a Gulfstream into Aspen.
You are using "tailored" differently than those I work with do. The Net Jet procedure was a special instrument approach procedure, which Jeppesen would have issued as a tailored chart. A special is always a tailored chart but a tailored chart does not have to be a special procedure. In the latter case a customer, typically an airline, requests that Jeppesen tailor the chart for a public procedure, perhaps to reflect more conservative minimums or perhaps to include a company note, etc.
But, I suspect you already know all of this. Forums are a very imperfect method of communication technical information.
Guest
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: On the Beach
Posts: 3,336
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ironbutt:
Best to wait it out at RATAN or request the VOR approach if its path looks clear.
There is no deviating once started down the RNAP AR yellow brick road.
Everytime I flew the VOR during the monsoon..CB's used to sit in that valley right where the RNAV approach takes you...
Best to wait it out at RATAN or request the VOR approach if its path looks clear.
There is no deviating once started down the RNAP AR yellow brick road.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Outer Marker
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RNP redundancy, autoflight, auto-throttles, and VNAV. You can just sit back and enjoy until DA.
