A320 DC ESS BUS FAULT after takeoff, would you return?
Beau_Peep
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: India
Posts: 228
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A320 DC ESS BUS FAULT after takeoff, would you return?
In case of DC ESS BUS FAULT after takeoff in clear weather, would you turn back to the airport?
It hits the communication very badly. RMP 1, ACP 1 and ACP 2 are lost. only one pilot can use ACP 3 at a time.
Blue hydraulic system and ATHR is also lost.
flight interphone is also lost.
It hits the communication very badly. RMP 1, ACP 1 and ACP 2 are lost. only one pilot can use ACP 3 at a time.
Blue hydraulic system and ATHR is also lost.
flight interphone is also lost.
Last edited by IFLY_INDIGO; 26th Sep 2013 at 02:59.
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: ETNL
Age: 47
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
if I my memory serves me correctly are even more systems affected.
But besides that, just loosing almost the entire com constitutes a high-risk scenario. Why would you consider to continue the flight??
But besides that, just loosing almost the entire com constitutes a high-risk scenario. Why would you consider to continue the flight??
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Nowhere near Shinbone Waterhole
Posts: 201
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Depends on what airport you're departing from. All things
being equal, if its some 1500m craphole out in the middle
of nowhere and all you've lost is DC ESS, I suggest one
would land at the next suitable airport where there's some
engineering facilities and a longer runway available. Course
this relies on the circumstances and situation at the time.
If its departing major base then the question is moot.
being equal, if its some 1500m craphole out in the middle
of nowhere and all you've lost is DC ESS, I suggest one
would land at the next suitable airport where there's some
engineering facilities and a longer runway available. Course
this relies on the circumstances and situation at the time.
If its departing major base then the question is moot.
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Not far from the edge of the Milky Way Galaxy in the Orion Arm.
Posts: 510
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
We`ve had this before. You still have comms with DC Essential. Find it in search, on here - you`ll appreciate it more then. I`ve posted to this question at least four million times - well, twice.
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: My views - Not my employer!
Posts: 1,031
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
NatstrackA
Did anyone say you have lost total comms? Its not nice, but comms are still there in limited form - particularly for the PIC.
However, would you continue?
I'm in the MD787 camp....
Did anyone say you have lost total comms? Its not nice, but comms are still there in limited form - particularly for the PIC.
However, would you continue?
I'm in the MD787 camp....
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Oporto
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Look below, do you really want to continue with the flight?
Safe to get back on the ground, even if you are overweight you still can arrange same time to burn some fuel, but at least you'll be overhead the airfield.
My two cents
Safe to get back on the ground, even if you are overweight you still can arrange same time to burn some fuel, but at least you'll be overhead the airfield.
My two cents
Join Date: May 2001
Location: A few degrees South
Posts: 809
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I do not fly Modern Airbus equipment, but having a look at the above QRH snippet, and knowing you are talking about an essential bus, I hope it is not a captain who poses the question.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 2,044
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not mentioned above is the significance of the various LAND ASAP messages (or their absence). Nor the difference between a "stable" situation and a "dynamic" one.
Once you have worked out how to fly the aircraft, it is pretty easy to fly. You then need to work out how (and where) to land it.
The fact it is called an "Essential Bus" is the root cause of the problem - too much wired through one place.
So to me, I would not want to return ASAP to field of departure. I would want to fly for as long as needed to understand what I really do have / not have (see Note 2), and land only after that period of time, and at a suitable airfield with a good plan of how to do the approach/landing. That might be the point of departure, it might be destination, it might be somewhere else. I would not unnecessarily delay a landing, since a lot of redundancy has been lost, and a further failure, whilst not life threatening, might make life more difficult.
IIRC from the Sim, there is nothing "urgent" about getting back on the ground. Once you have worked how "how" to fly/manage it is quite easy. It is a great training exercise in CRM. I suspect in the air it is even easier...
Current A319/320/3212 P1
Once you have worked out how to fly the aircraft, it is pretty easy to fly. You then need to work out how (and where) to land it.
The fact it is called an "Essential Bus" is the root cause of the problem - too much wired through one place.
So to me, I would not want to return ASAP to field of departure. I would want to fly for as long as needed to understand what I really do have / not have (see Note 2), and land only after that period of time, and at a suitable airfield with a good plan of how to do the approach/landing. That might be the point of departure, it might be destination, it might be somewhere else. I would not unnecessarily delay a landing, since a lot of redundancy has been lost, and a further failure, whilst not life threatening, might make life more difficult.
IIRC from the Sim, there is nothing "urgent" about getting back on the ground. Once you have worked how "how" to fly/manage it is quite easy. It is a great training exercise in CRM. I suspect in the air it is even easier...
Current A319/320/3212 P1
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Nowhere near Shinbone Waterhole
Posts: 201
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I hope it is not a captain who poses the question.
he's merely a cadet or junior FO on transition.
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Not far from the edge of the Milky Way Galaxy in the Orion Arm.
Posts: 510
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
@ Capt Silva and Cough DC Essential Failure
Well, back to the drawing board!!
No, I would not continue - not with all this stuff inop. I would be happy to get it back on the ground a.s.p.
Thank you also ECAM surprise.
Actually, who gives a
! Let us pick the bones out of this one.
Blast me, if you must - am, going for the big one!
Fly the aircraft, manual thrust and handling. Ap gone. and a/t too. Speed?
1/. don`t climb above 10,000 or 14,000 depending on which regs you are using. subject, some might say, to MSA - oooooh, bad.
Fly the aircraft.
Having got yourself a nice piece of airspace to hang around in try not to a get a fire or b pick up ice. Its a lodda fun! Needless to say, avoid high ground.
Fly the aircraft
Establish alt/level on baro when check and confirmed , wonder if we have rad alt . . ?
2/. just reading the QRH . . . .
Fly the aircraft - at least make sure somebody is.
Nice! No blue elec pump and no blue system, therefore do we have a RAT? Well, lets drop the RAT and maybe go for RAT MAN on.
Fly the aircaft.
Hyd Firel valves engine 1 +2 would be really interesting up here and may be funny down on the ground trying to shutdown the engines too.
Fly the aircraft - we got any nav? Maps?
fly the aircraft - find the suitable airport close by . . .
fly the aircraft - check for ice.
Acutally, panic over.
Happy so far. Vectors for a CATII light on remaining RMPs/ACPs may may not light up . . .
fly the aircraft, managed to rig up some form of comms. If not squwk 7600 or even 77 due to the urgency of me wanting to get in . . .
Hmm, might try dishing out blankets and sw off HOT Air Valve, don`t want Mr. Avionics to get too hot under the collar . . . If is winter - then might get a tad chilly for a bit
fly the aircraft. check for ice?
Might have a fun time trying to look at an SD page . . .
fly the aircraft - check for ice?
OK, get Nelly into the flightdeck and tell her we are going back due to a technical problem and to dish out blankets if it gets cold.
Figure out the landg dist from the QRH. Figure from WAT.
Happy, nice big fat juicy runway, long enough? - yea, excellent,
Fly the aircraft -
brief the approach or get thus briefed by those who flyeth not.
As this is not a dual hyd failure there is not real attitude discussion here - but as we have one reverser then assymetric reverser would not be the best policy - though not impossible, with the brakes debate-able we don`t want to be fighting an assymetric thrust reverser - p.s. if it rains, just use the wipers - . . . .may give auto brake a chance but if not prepare and brief for alternate braking subject to landin runway perf.
Prepared as always to deal with windsheer, ice and I think we`ll call to start the approach as briefed,
fly the aircraft. check for ice.
Not a really bad sit. We`ve got the other fac, we`ve got the secs, double check Cabin press, may have to manually selct A/D elev - lest we send the doors blasting through the terminal (only kidding)
Am happy this will be a pretty good landing. Looking for a long approach or a long final depnding on location and ground etc.
So, I`ll call vectors if not map or gwet somebody to navigate - fly the aircraft.
Approach land. Inform Ground, we may, may, be taxying in with engines running same for disembark - so no ground personnel on the ramp near the aircraft, until we have figured out how to shut down the engines . . .
There it is.
Get pax off while sorting out a shutdown.
Incoming?
No, I would not continue - not with all this stuff inop. I would be happy to get it back on the ground a.s.p.
Thank you also ECAM surprise.
Actually, who gives a
! Let us pick the bones out of this one.Blast me, if you must - am, going for the big one!
Fly the aircraft, manual thrust and handling. Ap gone. and a/t too. Speed?
1/. don`t climb above 10,000 or 14,000 depending on which regs you are using. subject, some might say, to MSA - oooooh, bad.
Fly the aircraft.
Having got yourself a nice piece of airspace to hang around in try not to a get a fire or b pick up ice. Its a lodda fun! Needless to say, avoid high ground.
Fly the aircraft
Establish alt/level on baro when check and confirmed , wonder if we have rad alt . . ?
2/. just reading the QRH . . . .
Fly the aircraft - at least make sure somebody is.
Nice! No blue elec pump and no blue system, therefore do we have a RAT? Well, lets drop the RAT and maybe go for RAT MAN on.
Fly the aircaft.
Hyd Firel valves engine 1 +2 would be really interesting up here and may be funny down on the ground trying to shutdown the engines too.
Fly the aircraft - we got any nav? Maps?
fly the aircraft - find the suitable airport close by . . .
fly the aircraft - check for ice.
Acutally, panic over.
Happy so far. Vectors for a CATII light on remaining RMPs/ACPs may may not light up . . .
fly the aircraft, managed to rig up some form of comms. If not squwk 7600 or even 77 due to the urgency of me wanting to get in . . .
Hmm, might try dishing out blankets and sw off HOT Air Valve, don`t want Mr. Avionics to get too hot under the collar . . . If is winter - then might get a tad chilly for a bit
fly the aircraft. check for ice?
Might have a fun time trying to look at an SD page . . .
fly the aircraft - check for ice?
OK, get Nelly into the flightdeck and tell her we are going back due to a technical problem and to dish out blankets if it gets cold.
Figure out the landg dist from the QRH. Figure from WAT.
Happy, nice big fat juicy runway, long enough? - yea, excellent,
Fly the aircraft -
brief the approach or get thus briefed by those who flyeth not.
As this is not a dual hyd failure there is not real attitude discussion here - but as we have one reverser then assymetric reverser would not be the best policy - though not impossible, with the brakes debate-able we don`t want to be fighting an assymetric thrust reverser - p.s. if it rains, just use the wipers - . . . .may give auto brake a chance but if not prepare and brief for alternate braking subject to landin runway perf.
Prepared as always to deal with windsheer, ice and I think we`ll call to start the approach as briefed,
fly the aircraft. check for ice.
Not a really bad sit. We`ve got the other fac, we`ve got the secs, double check Cabin press, may have to manually selct A/D elev - lest we send the doors blasting through the terminal (only kidding)
Am happy this will be a pretty good landing. Looking for a long approach or a long final depnding on location and ground etc.
So, I`ll call vectors if not map or gwet somebody to navigate - fly the aircraft.
Approach land. Inform Ground, we may, may, be taxying in with engines running same for disembark - so no ground personnel on the ramp near the aircraft, until we have figured out how to shut down the engines . . .
There it is.
Get pax off while sorting out a shutdown.
Incoming?
Last edited by Natstrackalpha; 30th Sep 2013 at 12:18.
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Nowhere near Shinbone Waterhole
Posts: 201
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why this apparent "**** we're all f**ked!" attitude with
some posters about a loss of DC ESS? If that were so
then Airbus wouldn't have gained certification of their
fancy-gadgeted buses.
Its a busy time with a loss of an essential lecky bus but
it isn't the end of the world - even in an Airbus.
Perhaps its because its got the scary word 'Essential' in
it. Maybe the manufacturer should substitute that word
with 'Priority' - eg ELEC DC PRIORITY BUS FAULT.
Natstrack I'll have whatever it is you're smokin'.
some posters about a loss of DC ESS? If that were so
then Airbus wouldn't have gained certification of their
fancy-gadgeted buses.
Its a busy time with a loss of an essential lecky bus but
it isn't the end of the world - even in an Airbus.
Perhaps its because its got the scary word 'Essential' in
it. Maybe the manufacturer should substitute that word
with 'Priority' - eg ELEC DC PRIORITY BUS FAULT.
Natstrack I'll have whatever it is you're smokin'.
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Nowhere near Shinbone Waterhole
Posts: 201
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ecam S try a combined AC and DC ESS fault next time you're
in the box. This exercise truly sorts out the men from the boys
with a fervent hope by all participants afterwards it'll never ever
happen in real life......
in the box. This exercise truly sorts out the men from the boys
with a fervent hope by all participants afterwards it'll never ever
happen in real life......
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: The Wood
Posts: 248
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I posted it last time but this video is quite nice if you're flying an MSN that doesn't lose all ACPs:
For the MSNs that have all ACPs connected to the AMU see the following report from one our aircraft:
http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources...009_G-EZAC.pdf
You don't need to have had a heads up so much on a failure like this. You need to strictly follow AVIATE (try both APs, try the ATHR, clear THR LOCK), Navigate (continue on the flight planned route), Communicate (Try all headsets, speakers, ACPs, PTTs, Switching and boxes) - if the comms are giving you hassle and distracting too much give it 7600 and forget for a while, ECAM - Work through it. The engines are still turning, the wings are still attached - take 'er easy. DODAR it, Assign tasks, NITS it, set up, brief, land. Be like the I.T. guy off the office in his go karting story...... 'What were you worried about?'
For the MSNs that have all ACPs connected to the AMU see the following report from one our aircraft:
http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources...009_G-EZAC.pdf
You don't need to have had a heads up so much on a failure like this. You need to strictly follow AVIATE (try both APs, try the ATHR, clear THR LOCK), Navigate (continue on the flight planned route), Communicate (Try all headsets, speakers, ACPs, PTTs, Switching and boxes) - if the comms are giving you hassle and distracting too much give it 7600 and forget for a while, ECAM - Work through it. The engines are still turning, the wings are still attached - take 'er easy. DODAR it, Assign tasks, NITS it, set up, brief, land. Be like the I.T. guy off the office in his go karting story...... 'What were you worried about?'
Last edited by WhyByFlier; 2nd Oct 2013 at 20:17.
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Nowhere near Shinbone Waterhole
Posts: 201
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's amazing how a combination of failures can lead to one big problem.
Airbuses - write down the original failure somewhere
handy or you might get so caught up in sub-failures
that you will probably forget what the hell it was that
failed to begin with!