How many sectors do you handfly?
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It can't be moronic if it's a fact. Which it is.
Maybe if you don't want your airline to spend more money try and be more flexible and proactive when it comes to the tactical situation that you should see developing ahead of you. I'm not going to help you out. In fact I'm going to go out of my way to ensure that my airline benefits.
Maybe if you don't want your airline to spend more money try and be more flexible and proactive when it comes to the tactical situation that you should see developing ahead of you. I'm not going to help you out. In fact I'm going to go out of my way to ensure that my airline benefits.
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John Smith is of the opinion that,,,
As a line trainer I feel it most important to expose my students to all forms of manual flight, regardless of weather, and traffic situations. It gives the student confidence during line training, and the learning process. Not every Captain, nor Line Trainer has the same threshhold of pain.
Lets assume you are in cruise with EGLL is your destination. The Wx at EGLL is RVR 600 in BR. The Wx at EGSS is CAVOK. Just prior to TOD, all the automatics are T/U, is one to declare a "Pan Pan" and divert to EGSS? Pax would be peeved to say the least. That would be a rather interesting conversation with the C/P.
That's why the need for as much hand flying without automatics, in the Jet, ( not the simulator twice a year) for those who wish to maintain their proficiency.
It's not about being 'welded to using the FD'. It's about making best use of automation. It is patently NOT appropriate to hand fly in certain situations, without an exceptionally good reason to do so.
Lets assume you are in cruise with EGLL is your destination. The Wx at EGLL is RVR 600 in BR. The Wx at EGSS is CAVOK. Just prior to TOD, all the automatics are T/U, is one to declare a "Pan Pan" and divert to EGSS? Pax would be peeved to say the least. That would be a rather interesting conversation with the C/P.
That's why the need for as much hand flying without automatics, in the Jet, ( not the simulator twice a year) for those who wish to maintain their proficiency.
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John, you keep quoting different things. I don't plan it but if the opportunity appears, usually because some idiot has got his head stuck up his 
, then I'll take it.
Let me give you a real life example.
Cruising merrily down to Spain and gradually overhauling an orange Airbus 2000 above us. Said orange Airbus starts weaving all over the sky, unnecessarily, to avoid some clouds. We start catching him up quite quickly now. After a while he requests descent and is cleared on the same arrival as we are. It's a procedural approach at destination and requires large spacing because they would only allow one aircraft at a time on the approach. At this point we also realise ATC are in no way interested in forward planning and have allowed us to get too close. Anyway, said orange airbus, now back at 245kts or so has descended through our level and is only 5 miles ahead of us. Not enough spacing and I can see us getting a hold or two, or three. So I elect to increase our speed all round and eventually get in front, then we request descent. We are first to the IAF whereupon ATC wake up and tell him to go around the hold at 7000' twice before he can start the approach. Que very unprofessional comment from said orange Airbus and much mirth in our flight deck.
So dear John you think I should've come back to min clean and let him go first, thereby screwing up our schedule and fuel plan or would you have done what I did, annoy them a bit and waste a few hundred kilos of their gas?
You or me pal.
, then I'll take it. Let me give you a real life example.
Cruising merrily down to Spain and gradually overhauling an orange Airbus 2000 above us. Said orange Airbus starts weaving all over the sky, unnecessarily, to avoid some clouds. We start catching him up quite quickly now. After a while he requests descent and is cleared on the same arrival as we are. It's a procedural approach at destination and requires large spacing because they would only allow one aircraft at a time on the approach. At this point we also realise ATC are in no way interested in forward planning and have allowed us to get too close. Anyway, said orange airbus, now back at 245kts or so has descended through our level and is only 5 miles ahead of us. Not enough spacing and I can see us getting a hold or two, or three. So I elect to increase our speed all round and eventually get in front, then we request descent. We are first to the IAF whereupon ATC wake up and tell him to go around the hold at 7000' twice before he can start the approach. Que very unprofessional comment from said orange Airbus and much mirth in our flight deck.
So dear John you think I should've come back to min clean and let him go first, thereby screwing up our schedule and fuel plan or would you have done what I did, annoy them a bit and waste a few hundred kilos of their gas?
You or me pal.
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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Anyway, said orange airbus, now back at 245kts or so has descended through our level and is only 5 miles ahead of us. Not enough spacing and I can see us getting a hold or two, or three. So I elect to increase our speed all round and eventually get in front, then we request descent.
Oh yes, and by electing to increase your speed all round sufficient to get ahead in such a short timescale do you really think you saved any fuel?
Not a drop.
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I always get slightly worried reading through these threads knowing I share airspace quite frequently with some posters on here.
All this adversarial language, speaking in terms of "your" and "my" airline, cutting people off, deliberately trying to screw over other pilots, etc...
Remember, you're all just one interview away from becoming actual colleagues in the same company, perhaps even from sitting next to each other in the flight deck.
Relax, go have a cup of tea and enjoy the weather. Most of us only get a few weeks of summer
All this adversarial language, speaking in terms of "your" and "my" airline, cutting people off, deliberately trying to screw over other pilots, etc...
Remember, you're all just one interview away from becoming actual colleagues in the same company, perhaps even from sitting next to each other in the flight deck.
Relax, go have a cup of tea and enjoy the weather. Most of us only get a few weeks of summer
Last edited by root; 5th Aug 2013 at 09:16.
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Oh yes, and by electing to increase your speed all round sufficient to get ahead in such a short timescale do you really think you saved any fuel?
Not a drop.
Not a drop.
indeed. I guess you'd have been back at min clean over 100 miles out and a couple of holds? Good thinking Mr Efficiency
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, you're all just one interview away from becoming actual colleagues in the same company, perhaps even from sitting next to each other in the flight deck.
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Not yet, but thanks for the tip.
Maybe you could explain exactly what is so unprofessional and disgusting about flying faster than another aircraft? If your explanation is reasonable I will ask our flight planners to ensure that we never fly faster than anybody else.
Maybe you'd like to explain what you'd do in the situation I described.
Maybe you could explain exactly what is so unprofessional and disgusting about flying faster than another aircraft? If your explanation is reasonable I will ask our flight planners to ensure that we never fly faster than anybody else.
Maybe you'd like to explain what you'd do in the situation I described.
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LMS:
Intentionally causing inefficiencies, even to the competition, hurts the industry as a whole.
If it means that you're going to be extended, stuck into the hold or whatever and use a load more gas then I shall make sure that happens.
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You must quote in context chap. That context being - I do not have to do a visual approach just because you want me to. I'm perfectly entitled to fly the full flight plan including the arrival and approach if I want to.
As is everybody else. Really disgusting.
As is everybody else. Really disgusting.
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LMS
The sentence I quoted is quite clear. It does not say that you just want to follow your own plan; you have every right to do that. What it says is that you "shall make sure that" the other guy has to waste resources.
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That sentence is in response to another post, the one I quoted, telling everyone not to turn down the offer of a visual approach.
Which, according to you, I have every right to do. So what's the beef?
Which, according to you, I have every right to do. So what's the beef?
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No John, I haven't stated it was part of my approach planning. As you can see I said maybe that's what they did. When I said "I do that sometimes" I meant that I won't be forced into a visual approach just because I can hear the exasperated cries of Mr Rush behind us.
If you burn more fuel or get wound up as a by product of that then I don't care. If you think I'm going to go visual just so you don't get wound up or burn more fuel or because you are in a rush then you're wrong. So yes I'll make sure it happens by flying the approach the way I've planned to. However, I did say sometimes so if I'm with a decent FO and\or we've briefed or we're familiar enough then I will accept a visual. But not because you think I should because you're late, or whatever.
You say it's unprofessional yet you also say nobody should be bullied into a visual.
If you burn more fuel or get wound up as a by product of that then I don't care. If you think I'm going to go visual just so you don't get wound up or burn more fuel or because you are in a rush then you're wrong. So yes I'll make sure it happens by flying the approach the way I've planned to. However, I did say sometimes so if I'm with a decent FO and\or we've briefed or we're familiar enough then I will accept a visual. But not because you think I should because you're late, or whatever.
You say it's unprofessional yet you also say nobody should be bullied into a visual.
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I don't handfly whole sectors but if a portion of the flight has some little trickier portions I try to handfly them raw data as often as possible depending on the captain on the flight. I fly the 737.
For instance tight DME arcs when there's a lot of wind, complex transitions with many letdowns having course and navaidchanges etc so I have to scan the approach plate as well, scanning simply instruments is not that stimulating. Otherwise I don't handily normal portions of the flight that I've been doing millions of time more than a few times a month. I'm busy fighting severe complacency
For instance tight DME arcs when there's a lot of wind, complex transitions with many letdowns having course and navaidchanges etc so I have to scan the approach plate as well, scanning simply instruments is not that stimulating. Otherwise I don't handily normal portions of the flight that I've been doing millions of time more than a few times a month. I'm busy fighting severe complacency
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Oh for the days when I'd go and do six 52 mile sectors in the morning in a DC-9.
Being a green and keen F/O in those days I never turned on the autopilot. Jaded skippers did, but not for long, takeoff to touchdown was about 12 minutes at 250 knots and 11 minutes at 320 knots.
It almost seemed like one continuous reading of the checklist from start to finish.
And when your navigation equipment consisted of 2 VOR's and 2 ADF's you could have your airplane set up for the return flight in under a minute.
Being a green and keen F/O in those days I never turned on the autopilot. Jaded skippers did, but not for long, takeoff to touchdown was about 12 minutes at 250 knots and 11 minutes at 320 knots.
It almost seemed like one continuous reading of the checklist from start to finish.
And when your navigation equipment consisted of 2 VOR's and 2 ADF's you could have your airplane set up for the return flight in under a minute.
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YEAR 5s GETTING OUT OF ORDER?!
Now now class, settle down and be quiet and serious.
You 2 in the back row please stop comparing size and try to concentrate!!!
The OP raised a very interesting and potentially informative thread and some of you have descended into behaviour more suitable for behind the bike sheds than the sort of conduct we expect in this schools debating society.
Horrors, some airline management and regulators may even now be reading this, and we complain about a lack of respect and remuneration in our various form levels?!
Now let's have some calm reflection and thinking and try to persuade the head that we actually deserve to go on the school trip to the airport and see the planes and be allowed to visit the control tower, otherwise it will be detention for ALL of you ! ! ! ! ! !
You 2 in the back row please stop comparing
size and try to concentrate!!!The OP raised a very interesting and potentially informative thread and some of you have descended into behaviour more suitable for behind the bike sheds than the sort of conduct we expect in this schools debating society.
Horrors, some airline management and regulators may even now be reading this, and we complain about a lack of respect and remuneration in our various form levels?!
Now let's have some calm reflection and thinking and try to persuade the head that we actually deserve to go on the school trip to the airport and see the planes and be allowed to visit the control tower, otherwise it will be detention for ALL of you ! ! ! ! ! !
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First of all Barkingmad 
na naaaaa na naaaa naaaaaa You've got to catch me first
I appreciate I'm generally off the original topic although it has stemmed from a post concerning that topic and that's just the way most threads go anyway.
I'll be quiet when people stop calling me unprofessional and disgusting and offer me a realistic alternative to the situation(s) I have described. Which they haven't, not one.
na naaaaa na naaaa naaaaaa You've got to catch me firstI appreciate I'm generally off the original topic although it has stemmed from a post concerning that topic and that's just the way most threads go anyway.
I'll be quiet when people stop calling me unprofessional and disgusting and offer me a realistic alternative to the situation(s) I have described. Which they haven't, not one.