Differences in landing technique between 320/321?
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Differences in landing technique between 320/321?
Good morning!
Recently I have been flying the 320 and 321. From my experience, whenever I have been landing the 321. The landing often results in a positive/firm landing. Recorded a 1.9G load very recently
. Yet landing the 320 seems far easier for me with smooth touchdowns. I feel that I am applying the same technique for both aircraft and taking little account of how heavy or light the weight is.
Wondering if any of you seasoned veterans can shed any advice on landing techniques and handling?
Thanks
Recently I have been flying the 320 and 321. From my experience, whenever I have been landing the 321. The landing often results in a positive/firm landing. Recorded a 1.9G load very recently
. Yet landing the 320 seems far easier for me with smooth touchdowns. I feel that I am applying the same technique for both aircraft and taking little account of how heavy or light the weight is.Wondering if any of you seasoned veterans can shed any advice on landing techniques and handling?
Thanks
I've only just started flying the Airbus (319/320/321) and so what follows is based on minimal experience on type; however, it could be the small difference in eye-height that may be to blame. In the 321, your eyes will be a little higher above the runway on touchdown than in the 320 (due to the greater distance between the cockpit and main wheels). Another factor may be the flap setting. Are you using the same for both types consistently?
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Once you gain a little experience, you'll probably prefer the 321, of course there is no single techniques to use in every condition, but here's a starting point:
Try flying the GS to 100 FT, then you might go slightly lower, as in 3reds1 white, at 30FT closing thrust levers with a slight stick up to arrest the decsent, but before the mains touch, do a de-rotation the remainder of the manuvre, you will learn to roll the airplane on very softly once perfected, I also advocate having your feet all the way up onto the brakes, not heels on the floor like other jets.
Just my suggestions, others will disagree, good flying!
Try flying the GS to 100 FT, then you might go slightly lower, as in 3reds1 white, at 30FT closing thrust levers with a slight stick up to arrest the decsent, but before the mains touch, do a de-rotation the remainder of the manuvre, you will learn to roll the airplane on very softly once perfected, I also advocate having your feet all the way up onto the brakes, not heels on the floor like other jets.
Just my suggestions, others will disagree, good flying!
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I find that the A321 needs a shallower lower flare with a slight reverse flare at the end.
Maybe just try keeping the thrust levers in CLB until you flare before selecting idle.
Maybe just try keeping the thrust levers in CLB until you flare before selecting idle.
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Thank you for all your input. It all helps.
I think this is it! I am flaring a little too late it seems. Usual technique is crossing the runway at about 50' (sound right?). Looking at the aiming point. At 30', holding the landing attitude and bringing the thrust levers to idle. Maintaining the flare until touchdown.
The past few landings, I've found that by the time, my mind and hand coordinate. It turns out, I am flaring at 20'. Which in turn is too late and also, I am more fixated at the area directly ahead of me and not towards the end the end of the runway. The landings have been during night so another thing was the night effect of the runway gushing towards me. Where I recorded a 1.9G landing, the PNF called 4 whites as I was crossing the runway.
What I also need help with is, how should I be adjusting and modifying my flare, thrust techniques when being heavy, light, tailwind, headwind conditions?
What do you guys mean by reverse flare/ de-rotation?
Thank you again.
I think this is it! I am flaring a little too late it seems. Usual technique is crossing the runway at about 50' (sound right?). Looking at the aiming point. At 30', holding the landing attitude and bringing the thrust levers to idle. Maintaining the flare until touchdown.
The past few landings, I've found that by the time, my mind and hand coordinate. It turns out, I am flaring at 20'. Which in turn is too late and also, I am more fixated at the area directly ahead of me and not towards the end the end of the runway. The landings have been during night so another thing was the night effect of the runway gushing towards me. Where I recorded a 1.9G landing, the PNF called 4 whites as I was crossing the runway.
What I also need help with is, how should I be adjusting and modifying my flare, thrust techniques when being heavy, light, tailwind, headwind conditions?
What do you guys mean by reverse flare/ de-rotation?
Thank you again.
I agree, always found I got nice smooth landing on the 321 by using a slightly flatter flare. On the 320 I make a nice positive flare, on the 321 still a positive flare but to a couple of degrees LESS nose up than the 320. I have done this since a training captain told me a really positive flare in the 321 results in you 'driving' the main gear onto the runway. But please don't mistake this as not flaring, I agree with the above, start the flare 5 seconds or so before you wood on the 320 and just maintain a slightly flatter picture out the window.
As for the thrust, don't be in a hurry to 'chop' the power, just a nice steady retardation starting at 30' until touchdown, if you chop it then watchout
Generally at light wieghts I start taking power off at 30', the heavier I get the later I leave the power, so if I am near MLW I don't touch the thrust leavers until well into the flare, passing through 20'.
Likewise, with a strong headwind I leave the power in slightly longer, with a tailwind I take the power back at 30'.
Thing is you just get a 'feeling' for this stuff. Still doesn't stop you getting a 'banger' of a landing every now and then
Experience will just mean that you go for longer periods between bad landings 
As for the thrust, don't be in a hurry to 'chop' the power, just a nice steady retardation starting at 30' until touchdown, if you chop it then watchout
Generally at light wieghts I start taking power off at 30', the heavier I get the later I leave the power, so if I am near MLW I don't touch the thrust leavers until well into the flare, passing through 20'.
Likewise, with a strong headwind I leave the power in slightly longer, with a tailwind I take the power back at 30'.
Thing is you just get a 'feeling' for this stuff. Still doesn't stop you getting a 'banger' of a landing every now and then
Experience will just mean that you go for longer periods between bad landings
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De-rotation - that's what I call it when I push the side stick forward, I don't pull back on the stick to a certain attitude and wait for contact, consider that the actual CG is probably forward of the MLG, so as I ease the side stick forward, it's actually reducing the vertical descent of the gear while lowering the nose, thereby making a very soft touch down.
I learned this technique from my British counter parts that don't try to do the soft kiss landing, they are more concerned in putting the aircraft on the available runway, and getting off that runway as soon as practical. So they basically wait to the last minute to flair, then complete the landing by pushing forward on the stick, amazingly smooth with practice, and no runway wasted using my old technique.
I learned this technique from my British counter parts that don't try to do the soft kiss landing, they are more concerned in putting the aircraft on the available runway, and getting off that runway as soon as practical. So they basically wait to the last minute to flair, then complete the landing by pushing forward on the stick, amazingly smooth with practice, and no runway wasted using my old technique.
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Mother of god, a 1-9g landing.......printer must have been spewing its guts out after that. That's an almighty wallop.
My memory of the 321 was it was a curse when heavy. Trying to select flap 1 in gusty weather and heavy with a green dot of 221 kts and close to the limit speed..... Also remember crap roll control.
Flying by numbers will eventually end in tears and chopping the power early on a heavy 321 will definitely. As per previous I used a flat flare, sometimes I chopped the power right down to the šeck with loads of retard retard stuff and I never flew plus 5....plus 7 ish for me.
My memory of the 321 was it was a curse when heavy. Trying to select flap 1 in gusty weather and heavy with a green dot of 221 kts and close to the limit speed..... Also remember crap roll control.
Flying by numbers will eventually end in tears and chopping the power early on a heavy 321 will definitely. As per previous I used a flat flare, sometimes I chopped the power right down to the šeck with loads of retard retard stuff and I never flew plus 5....plus 7 ish for me.
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Pantload has it in one, albeit, brief.
approach, approach, approach, 100, 50,
30 hold att
20 pitch up 2 degrees - judged visually. -and- wherever "retard" comes in - do it.
Mains on Select Rev idle. Place nose on runway, apply forward press on the nose as you apply full reverse, don`t let nose ride up
Don`t float. Prefers to be flown on. Tiny bounce, hold att.
Big bounce, go around, a/c may touch down again after TOGA selected.
approach, approach, approach, 100, 50,
30 hold att
20 pitch up 2 degrees - judged visually. -and- wherever "retard" comes in - do it.
Mains on Select Rev idle. Place nose on runway, apply forward press on the nose as you apply full reverse, don`t let nose ride up
Don`t float. Prefers to be flown on. Tiny bounce, hold att.
Big bounce, go around, a/c may touch down again after TOGA selected.
Last edited by Natstrackalpha; 26th Apr 2012 at 12:46.
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If you set a landing attitude as the plane slows you will develop a sink rate. It takes a tiny amount of additional back force to prevent the sink rate from developing.
If you're close to touchdown the sink rate, and it's effect on the landing, is barely noticeable. If you're slightly higher it becomes a greater impact resulting in a less desireable touchdown.
Don't know about the Airbus but non FBW a/c need additional back force to overcome the loss of nose up force as the power is reduced. Again, very subtle.
If you're close to touchdown the sink rate, and it's effect on the landing, is barely noticeable. If you're slightly higher it becomes a greater impact resulting in a less desireable touchdown.
Don't know about the Airbus but non FBW a/c need additional back force to overcome the loss of nose up force as the power is reduced. Again, very subtle.
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I was once shown the "push the stick forward to lift the main wheels as they touch" technique on a 737 by a captain who always did very smooth landings.
I tried it once and did a very gentle landing, with a bit of mis-judgement, the next attempt was nearer a crash.
It may work for those of you practised in the technique, however, I would suggest caution in using methods not in the flight crew training manual, especially with someone new on type and having issues with landings. Airbus allow release of back pressure but advise against pushing the stick forwards in the flare.
We have just replaced the undercarriage on an airbus after a landing which makes your 1.9g seem gentle. Forward movement of the stick is believed to be a factor in this incident.
I tried it once and did a very gentle landing, with a bit of mis-judgement, the next attempt was nearer a crash.
It may work for those of you practised in the technique, however, I would suggest caution in using methods not in the flight crew training manual, especially with someone new on type and having issues with landings. Airbus allow release of back pressure but advise against pushing the stick forwards in the flare.
We have just replaced the undercarriage on an airbus after a landing which makes your 1.9g seem gentle. Forward movement of the stick is believed to be a factor in this incident.
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Morning people,
Again landing the 320 yesterday. Landed very nicely with a smooth touchdown.
The training captain suggested I should land a 321 in F3 config as opposed to flap full. His exact words were, because it's easier to land in F3. What are your thoughts and opinions on this?
Thanks!
Again landing the 320 yesterday. Landed very nicely with a smooth touchdown.
The training captain suggested I should land a 321 in F3 config as opposed to flap full. His exact words were, because it's easier to land in F3. What are your thoughts and opinions on this?
Thanks!
Flap 3 works well, you just have to be very very aware of the 'tailstrike' considerations. Your nose attitude will be that little bit higher than with flap full, so if you combine that with a 'normal' flare then you risk banging the tail.
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Peripheral vision
What you state in post 8 (at 06:22) is really important: more important than numbers like , do I flare at an auto callout of 30 or 20, is the use of your peripheral vision to judge height and descent rate.
During the approach you look a lot inside to stay on the numbers (glideslope and speed) and you look outside at the touchdown point.
However, as you are close to the threshold (when you are between 100 and 50 ft) you must shift your vision towards far down the runway and keep it there. You will then be able to judge how quickly the ground rises towards you and be best able to judge the flare maneuvre. Do not anymore shift your vision to inside, because that will break the continuity of your visual flare appraisal.
Many times, when evaluating a somewhat rough landing, you will realize with hindsight that you have screwed up this shifting of the point where your vision is aimed at. This can happen after a long flight (fatigue, reacting just a tad too slow), or when you look inside to check speed or thrust setting once more, just to be sure.
Finally, 1.9 g is indeed firm, but remember that a greaser is not a criterion for a good, safe landing, according to the manufacturers of commercial airplanes.
During the approach you look a lot inside to stay on the numbers (glideslope and speed) and you look outside at the touchdown point.
However, as you are close to the threshold (when you are between 100 and 50 ft) you must shift your vision towards far down the runway and keep it there. You will then be able to judge how quickly the ground rises towards you and be best able to judge the flare maneuvre. Do not anymore shift your vision to inside, because that will break the continuity of your visual flare appraisal.
Many times, when evaluating a somewhat rough landing, you will realize with hindsight that you have screwed up this shifting of the point where your vision is aimed at. This can happen after a long flight (fatigue, reacting just a tad too slow), or when you look inside to check speed or thrust setting once more, just to be sure.
Finally, 1.9 g is indeed firm, but remember that a greaser is not a criterion for a good, safe landing, according to the manufacturers of commercial airplanes.