ETOPS
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ETOPS
If a twin engined aircraft is flying more than 60 minutes away from a suitable operational airfield, with this time being calculated for a single engine operation in still air conditions, then the aircraft is flying ETOPS.
Am I right in saying if a two engine aircraft takes off and now I shutdown the other engine and we fly for 60 minutes the distance that I cover would be the limit for that aircraft, if it crosses this limit this aircraft is now flying ETOPS.
Is this the correct interpretation !!
Am I right in saying if a two engine aircraft takes off and now I shutdown the other engine and we fly for 60 minutes the distance that I cover would be the limit for that aircraft, if it crosses this limit this aircraft is now flying ETOPS.
Is this the correct interpretation !!
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Could you explain your question please?
Why would you continue flying away from the airfield you took off from on one engine?
The ETOPS distance is a set number, which is part of the ETOPS certification.
For instance, in my company for the B777 it is 400 NM.
So 180 ETOPS is maximum 1200 NM from an adequate airport.
Why would you continue flying away from the airfield you took off from on one engine?
The ETOPS distance is a set number, which is part of the ETOPS certification.
For instance, in my company for the B777 it is 400 NM.
So 180 ETOPS is maximum 1200 NM from an adequate airport.
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I'll try to make it as simple as possible:
Not exactly.
Before flying ETOPS, the aircraft must be ETOPS certified by the manufacturer.
The operator who wishes to operate under ETOPS must go through an approval with its regulatory authorities.
Part of this approval process, a 60 min maximum diversion distance has to be determined (i.e. approved one-engine inoperative cruise speed)
There are different methods to calculate it....
Once this distance has been calculated and approved, you will be flying ETOPS each time your route takes you further than this 60 min max diversion distance from an ADEQUATE airport.
That 60 min distance is fixed under the ETOPS approval and can vary from one operator to another.
In my company, it is 420 NM for all Airbus fleets for commonality reasons.
Originally Posted by granard
Am I right in saying if a two engine aircraft takes off and now I shutdown the other engine and we fly for 60 minutes the distance that I cover would be the limit for that aircraft, if it crosses this limit this aircraft is now flying ETOPS.
Is this the correct interpretation !!
Is this the correct interpretation !!
Before flying ETOPS, the aircraft must be ETOPS certified by the manufacturer.
The operator who wishes to operate under ETOPS must go through an approval with its regulatory authorities.
Part of this approval process, a 60 min maximum diversion distance has to be determined (i.e. approved one-engine inoperative cruise speed)
There are different methods to calculate it....
Once this distance has been calculated and approved, you will be flying ETOPS each time your route takes you further than this 60 min max diversion distance from an ADEQUATE airport.
That 60 min distance is fixed under the ETOPS approval and can vary from one operator to another.
In my company, it is 420 NM for all Airbus fleets for commonality reasons.
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Thanks for the response.
How is this 400nm calculate?
Is it by as I said at the start flying the aircraft on one engine at cruise speed for 1 hour and see what distance this covers.
Now for that particular aircraft it would be 400nm.
How is this 400nm calculate?
Is it by as I said at the start flying the aircraft on one engine at cruise speed for 1 hour and see what distance this covers.
Now for that particular aircraft it would be 400nm.
Not by actually flying the aircraft, but by using the certified single engine performance data. The single engine cruise speed is selected by the airline (who then must allow for the required fuel flow in their critical point calculations).
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Granard,
Frustrating isn't it when no one answers your question, so here goes,
Threshold distance (ETOPS) is ;
Maximum distance from an adequate aerodrome for twin engine aeroplane without ETOPS approval. Based on ;
1) Diversion after engine failure
2) Take off at MTOW and gross weight after one hour of flight time
3) Mmo/Vmo speed schedule
4) zero wind
5) ISA conditions
Hope that clears it up
Frustrating isn't it when no one answers your question, so here goes,
Threshold distance (ETOPS) is ;
Maximum distance from an adequate aerodrome for twin engine aeroplane without ETOPS approval. Based on ;
1) Diversion after engine failure
2) Take off at MTOW and gross weight after one hour of flight time
3) Mmo/Vmo speed schedule
4) zero wind
5) ISA conditions
Hope that clears it up
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The calculated distance will vary depending on what speed schedule the operator chooses to use. A faster speed will give a greater distance, but will mean a lower maximum altitude & therefore may give terrain clearance problems, depending on the area of operation for that particular operator. The distance obtained from these calculations by the operator will then need to be approved by the regulator.
Once the operator has the distance approved this becomes the EDTO threshold distance (ETOPS is now referred to as this - Extended Diversion Time Operations). This figure does not change from day to day, as it is a theoretical figure. Therefore the actual time to fly from this point on one engine on any particular day may be greater or less than 1 hour due to wind & the actual speed used on that particular day. The reason I say 'the actual speed used on that particular day' is because you are not obliged to use the nominated speed that was used for the regulatory approval process. On the day you can fly what ever speed you feel appropriate. Just don't run out of fuel!
So this statement -
is incorrect. The aircraft is EDTO once it passes the EDTO threshold distance in the operators manual. Most use the fix page to put the EDTO threshold distance in & therefore have the threshold distance displayed on the ND as a circle around the EDTO adequate airport/s.
It can be a little confusing as the EDTO threshold is referred to as a time for convenience, when in fact it is a distance. Time & speed are simply used to calculate it. To further complicate matters, the various EDTO times (such as 60, 120, 180, 207, etc) can be calculated using different speeds by the operator, which means that the distances for these various EDTO times are not multiples of each other. For example, my company uses 431nm for their EDTO threshold distance (60 minutes) & 823nm for their 120 minute distance.
Once the operator has the distance approved this becomes the EDTO threshold distance (ETOPS is now referred to as this - Extended Diversion Time Operations). This figure does not change from day to day, as it is a theoretical figure. Therefore the actual time to fly from this point on one engine on any particular day may be greater or less than 1 hour due to wind & the actual speed used on that particular day. The reason I say 'the actual speed used on that particular day' is because you are not obliged to use the nominated speed that was used for the regulatory approval process. On the day you can fly what ever speed you feel appropriate. Just don't run out of fuel!
So this statement -
If a twin engined aircraft is flying more than 60 minutes away from a suitable operational airfield, with this time being calculated for a single engine operation in still air conditions, then the aircraft is flying ETOPS.
It can be a little confusing as the EDTO threshold is referred to as a time for convenience, when in fact it is a distance. Time & speed are simply used to calculate it. To further complicate matters, the various EDTO times (such as 60, 120, 180, 207, etc) can be calculated using different speeds by the operator, which means that the distances for these various EDTO times are not multiples of each other. For example, my company uses 431nm for their EDTO threshold distance (60 minutes) & 823nm for their 120 minute distance.
Last edited by Oakape; 29th Jul 2015 at 02:04.
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ICAO has adopted the terminology EDTO, but accepts that some authorities still choose to use the old term ETOPS. EASA & FAA are the two big players that still use the term ETOPS. Both EDTO & ETOPS are basically referring to the same thing. Page 11 explains.
http://www.icao.int/SAM/Documents/20...%93Summary.pdf
The main thing with EDTO is that three & four engine aircraft are now included in the requirements.
http://www.icao.int/SAM/Documents/20...%93Summary.pdf
The main thing with EDTO is that three & four engine aircraft are now included in the requirements.
ETOPs is still the 'official' FAA acronym, but it's become somewhat meaningless since it no longer applies exclusively to "Twin" engined aircraft per the latest FARs (gory details in "Appendix K").
So, in typical government newspeak, ETOPs no long stands for "Extended Twin OPerationS, it's now ExTended OPerations
Some of you that have been around the industry as long as I have may recall the original acronym - EROPs (Extended Range OPerations) but that was too logical so it got changed to ETOPs
EDTO makes a lot more sense given the current meaning of the rules.
So, in typical government newspeak, ETOPs no long stands for "Extended Twin OPerationS, it's now ExTended OPerations
Some of you that have been around the industry as long as I have may recall the original acronym - EROPs (Extended Range OPerations) but that was too logical so it got changed to ETOPsEDTO makes a lot more sense given the current meaning of the rules.
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And I always thought that ETOPs meant "engines turn or passengers swim" 
What does EDTO mean? "Engines die, time outstanding" ?
Other definition suggestions are welcome.
What does EDTO mean? "Engines die, time outstanding" ?
Other definition suggestions are welcome.
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part of the aircraft ETOPS certification is also a lot strickter maintenance regime, with rules like both engines cannot be changed within a certain flight time period of each other etc etc.
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from the original post, it appeared the person asking the question doesnt quite understand the meaning of ETOPs operations, their initial assumption was it was a time based thing with regards to the aircraft flightpath, so, some of the following responses highlight the fact that ETOPS is a certification issues, with numerous requirements, none of which have anything to do with flight times past certain points. so, in effect, answering the question, and hopefully educating the original poster in what ETOPs essentially means.
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EROPS, ETDO or ETOPS. Does it matter? Jesus, some overpaid and under worked desk job hairsplitting idiot will soon probably re-invent Weight and Balance, and come up with something as meaningless (and unmeasurable) connected with Mass!
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Granard, you won't manage to understand the whole ETOPS thing by posting this question. Have a good read at all the stuff you have in your OM, FCOM and training docs from your airline, which are not as clear as they should, usually, then come here for clarification. It is a very interesting subject, actually.