"I have control and communications, ECAM actions"
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Bagot Community
Posts: 181
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"I have control and communications, ECAM actions"
Most Airbus pilots should be very familiar with the above phrase, something you say when there are ECAM actions to do (blue action lines) following some type of failure.
When I was flying one day, the ECAM detected a failure and it displayed the failure on the Engine/warning display.
There were no action lines, just the failure.
I was the PF and I used those dreaded words "I have control and communications, ECAM actions", however the other pilot responded to me "this is not an ECAM action", as there were no action lines on the ECAM
Fair enough, no action line means no ECAM actions. However we/someone still had to deal with the failure, which involved :
- confirming/clearing the failure
- checking/performing any computer resets (QRH)
- reading/removing the status page
- consulting FCOM 3
I always thought all failures, whether action lines on ECAM or not, whether by reference to ECAM or QRH, were all done the same way.
Where one pilot (PF) takes control of the aircraft and communications and the other (PNF) deals with the failure, either by ECAM or QRH.
Now this pilot I was with basically told me that since there are no ECAM actions to be done, that the above phrase is not necessary (the failure is not dealt with in the usual Airbus way).
So how do you deal with a failure in an Airbus if there are no ECAM actions displayed ?
How do you deal with a failure if it requires reference to the QRH and not the ECAM ?
Do you still say "I have control and communications, ECAM actions (QRH checklist)" or do you do deal with the failure like you do in other non-airbus aircraft ? Where the PNF deals with the failure and still handles the communications and does not hand it over to you ?
When I was flying one day, the ECAM detected a failure and it displayed the failure on the Engine/warning display.
There were no action lines, just the failure.
I was the PF and I used those dreaded words "I have control and communications, ECAM actions", however the other pilot responded to me "this is not an ECAM action", as there were no action lines on the ECAM
Fair enough, no action line means no ECAM actions. However we/someone still had to deal with the failure, which involved :
- confirming/clearing the failure
- checking/performing any computer resets (QRH)
- reading/removing the status page
- consulting FCOM 3
I always thought all failures, whether action lines on ECAM or not, whether by reference to ECAM or QRH, were all done the same way.
Where one pilot (PF) takes control of the aircraft and communications and the other (PNF) deals with the failure, either by ECAM or QRH.
Now this pilot I was with basically told me that since there are no ECAM actions to be done, that the above phrase is not necessary (the failure is not dealt with in the usual Airbus way).
So how do you deal with a failure in an Airbus if there are no ECAM actions displayed ?
How do you deal with a failure if it requires reference to the QRH and not the ECAM ?
Do you still say "I have control and communications, ECAM actions (QRH checklist)" or do you do deal with the failure like you do in other non-airbus aircraft ? Where the PNF deals with the failure and still handles the communications and does not hand it over to you ?
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: The Land Downunder
Posts: 765
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Personally I just keep it all standard, "I HAVE CONTROL AND COMMUNICATIONS, ECAM ACTIONS'. If no actions then the PNF should just read the failure and ask to clear i.e. "AIR PACK 2 REGUL FAULT, CLEAR AIR", then review system pages and STS. To do anything else is just asking for trouble. In my opinion this other pilot is just trying to be to clever 
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Bagot Community
Posts: 181
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In my opinion this other pilot is just trying to be to clever
Now, next question, how do deal with a pilot trying to be clever ?
What would be the appropriate response after he just told me this is not an ECAM action ?
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Amman
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
tell him quite simply "please read the ecam for me" after you have assumed controls and comms. he will have nothing else to do but say the fault and ask you whether to clear. then status read and remove. if not, insist, tell him I can't fly and clear the fault because of the one head up at all times "Golden Rule"
you can also ask for a french accent
and maybe even ask him to read it again and again until you understand what he is saying 
you can also ask for a french accent
and maybe even ask him to read it again and again until you understand what he is saying
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Sale
Posts: 374
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have found that always keeping consistent with ECAM, regardless of how trivial, makes handling ECAM less error prone.
Even though there may be no blue action lines to "action" you still have to clear the ECAM (which you have to action).
Most importantly you have to review the status to see if there is any loss in capability. (which is another action).
You could always make a point by giving control to the other pilot and doing the actions yourself.
Even though there may be no blue action lines to "action" you still have to clear the ECAM (which you have to action).
Most importantly you have to review the status to see if there is any loss in capability. (which is another action).
You could always make a point by giving control to the other pilot and doing the actions yourself.
How to deal with a pilot trying to be clever ?
If his cleverness is limited to words only, while his actions are appropriate for the situation - no action required until "Parking checklist" is completed.
After a/c is chocked and engines are off, administer polite but firm lesson on how it's nice to be pedantic but application of pedantry requires considerable forethought. Lack thereof can lead to misapplication and entirely unwanted results.
As for SOP adherence: I found no better explanation of its importance than one found in DP Davies preface to second edition of "Handling the big jets"
Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Rome
Posts: 792
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi,
your clever companion told you that there are no ECAM actions. Ok. So then you clear your failure, and you end up with status, right ? OEBs, computer reset, normal checklist. After that, you read status. He will ask you to remove the status and you will confirm it. What happens now ? The PNF must say "Ecam actions completed", as it is a legal requirement, if something happens later on and your only way to explain what happened is thru the CVR... Ecam actions completed means that you have legally completed your required procedures. But which Ecam actions if, according to what he said, there were none ? So here we are, if something pops up on the Ecam it will be an ecam action as you are definitely going to do something on that ecam, right ? Just clear the failure or perform the actions listed in blue, but you will act anyway. So legally you are going to act. If he says that there are no ecam actions, just reply "ok so don't touch anything", leave the amber failure there. Clearing a failure is an ecam action. Regarding failures that you have to deal with by QRH procedures : you should have the list of all the failures that have a paper procedure in addition or substitution of the ecam, and these will have their "ecam entry". In that case it will be "master caution whatever", then "whatever paper checklist". No need to complicate things.
your clever companion told you that there are no ECAM actions. Ok. So then you clear your failure, and you end up with status, right ? OEBs, computer reset, normal checklist. After that, you read status. He will ask you to remove the status and you will confirm it. What happens now ? The PNF must say "Ecam actions completed", as it is a legal requirement, if something happens later on and your only way to explain what happened is thru the CVR... Ecam actions completed means that you have legally completed your required procedures. But which Ecam actions if, according to what he said, there were none ? So here we are, if something pops up on the Ecam it will be an ecam action as you are definitely going to do something on that ecam, right ? Just clear the failure or perform the actions listed in blue, but you will act anyway. So legally you are going to act. If he says that there are no ecam actions, just reply "ok so don't touch anything", leave the amber failure there. Clearing a failure is an ecam action. Regarding failures that you have to deal with by QRH procedures : you should have the list of all the failures that have a paper procedure in addition or substitution of the ecam, and these will have their "ecam entry". In that case it will be "master caution whatever", then "whatever paper checklist". No need to complicate things.
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Sunrise Senior Living
Posts: 1,338
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My understanding has always been that, when presented with an ECAM (Caution) with no action lines, the PNF will say "Crew Awareness, clear XXXX?" as it does in FCOM 3 Abnormal and Emergency Section
Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Rome
Posts: 792
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It depends on which level of failure you are talking about. A level 1 failure does not need any actions as it only needs crew monitoring. A level 2 failure will require crew action, at a convenient stage. There might be no further actions except clearing the title line, but as it follows a master caution, you are required to act.
edit : you will indeed clear both level of failures in the same way.
edit : you will indeed clear both level of failures in the same way.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Uh... Where was I?
Posts: 1,338
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
the syntax
Have you seen that video of TAP in the 320 sim?
I think it is there that I heard them say "no ecam actions" when there were no blue lines.
After many year sin real situations and in simulators, what I have learnt is that the phraseology is important, but the meaning is more important, and as someone said, adhering blindly to the sintax can be dangerous.
In the first place, the "ECAM ACTIONS" command does not necessarily follow after "I have controls" immediately. The "I have communications" doesn't necessarily follow, either. Not immediately, at least.
The order is Aviate (or fly) Navigate and Communicate. Then deal with the failure. So the ECAM actions are the last priority here. If you always say "I have controls and communications, ECAM ACTIONS" you can put the mind of the other pilot away from flight, navigation and communications too soon.
Both pilots have to ensure the Aviate part (one handling, the other supervising and assisiting), both pilots have to ensure the Navigate part (one handling, the other supervising and assisting) and both pilots have to ensure the Communicate (one talking, the other supervising, listening and assisiting). You don't split the team in two individuals yet. After these things ensured, then both pilots have to ensure the handling of the failure or failures. Both must have their minds in it, too.
Another important thing regarding this is that you have to check the SD page to confirm the failure and its details before doing any ECAM blue lines. In my opinion, the ECAM actions should never be commanded till a few seconds after the caution. Except in red warnings, nothing very bad is going to happen inmediately, so there is no rush. The ECAM actions are only there to isolate the fault. Sometimes there is nothing to isolate, but you still need to know that the item is faulty so you can troubleshoot, check the FCOMs...
The pilot handling should only order the ECAM ACTIONS after having ascertained that the ariplane follows the desired flight path at the desired speed, that the airplane is properly navigated and that necessary communications (if any) are carried out satisfactorily. The pilot non handling will have nothing else to do than to assist and supervise his mate, and detect any errors at the onset, rather than going head down as if the ECAM was in command of the airplane.
Then we can devote more attention to the failure, to its implications, do some troubleshooting and make a decision.
Getting confused like a robot with a bad code line in the software when something happens that you don't know how to express would be very sad.
Splitting a team at the very moment a failure is displayed in the ECAM is very sad, too. And exactly the opposite to good CRM, which is what we want to improve with "the syntax".
I think it is there that I heard them say "no ecam actions" when there were no blue lines.
After many year sin real situations and in simulators, what I have learnt is that the phraseology is important, but the meaning is more important, and as someone said, adhering blindly to the sintax can be dangerous.
In the first place, the "ECAM ACTIONS" command does not necessarily follow after "I have controls" immediately. The "I have communications" doesn't necessarily follow, either. Not immediately, at least.
The order is Aviate (or fly) Navigate and Communicate. Then deal with the failure. So the ECAM actions are the last priority here. If you always say "I have controls and communications, ECAM ACTIONS" you can put the mind of the other pilot away from flight, navigation and communications too soon.
Both pilots have to ensure the Aviate part (one handling, the other supervising and assisiting), both pilots have to ensure the Navigate part (one handling, the other supervising and assisting) and both pilots have to ensure the Communicate (one talking, the other supervising, listening and assisiting). You don't split the team in two individuals yet. After these things ensured, then both pilots have to ensure the handling of the failure or failures. Both must have their minds in it, too.
Another important thing regarding this is that you have to check the SD page to confirm the failure and its details before doing any ECAM blue lines. In my opinion, the ECAM actions should never be commanded till a few seconds after the caution. Except in red warnings, nothing very bad is going to happen inmediately, so there is no rush. The ECAM actions are only there to isolate the fault. Sometimes there is nothing to isolate, but you still need to know that the item is faulty so you can troubleshoot, check the FCOMs...
The pilot handling should only order the ECAM ACTIONS after having ascertained that the ariplane follows the desired flight path at the desired speed, that the airplane is properly navigated and that necessary communications (if any) are carried out satisfactorily. The pilot non handling will have nothing else to do than to assist and supervise his mate, and detect any errors at the onset, rather than going head down as if the ECAM was in command of the airplane.
Then we can devote more attention to the failure, to its implications, do some troubleshooting and make a decision.
Getting confused like a robot with a bad code line in the software when something happens that you don't know how to express would be very sad.
Splitting a team at the very moment a failure is displayed in the ECAM is very sad, too. And exactly the opposite to good CRM, which is what we want to improve with "the syntax".
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: pre-dep area
Posts: 163
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
@ microburst:
When you state "I have control", the intention is simply to declare that you are the PF and hence define task-sharing. That is why adding "and communictions" is SUPERFLUOUS, because by definition, PF in Abnormal/Emerg is responsible for the thrust levers, flt path and speed ctl, acft config, navigation AND communication.
This means that the 1st 3 items in the workload priority - aviate, navigate, communicate - is the PF's responsibility, and the 4th one, MANAGE, is that of the PNF.
When you state "I have control", the intention is simply to declare that you are the PF and hence define task-sharing. That is why adding "and communictions" is SUPERFLUOUS, because by definition, PF in Abnormal/Emerg is responsible for the thrust levers, flt path and speed ctl, acft config, navigation AND communication.
This means that the 1st 3 items in the workload priority - aviate, navigate, communicate - is the PF's responsibility, and the 4th one, MANAGE, is that of the PNF.
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Yellow Brick Road
Posts: 1,127
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I can think of only a couple of instances where you won't utter the standard words.
One is when you forget or delay turning the Packs on shortly after takeoff. Just reading the line and turning the packs back on will clear the ECAM with a nod from the PF.
The other occasion is immediately after an RTO. After the a/c has been brought to a complete stop, the PF coordinates with the tower while the PNF immediately launches into ECAM actions without being prompted by the PF - time is of the essence here.
I am prepared to be enlightened with contrary opinions.
One is when you forget or delay turning the Packs on shortly after takeoff. Just reading the line and turning the packs back on will clear the ECAM with a nod from the PF.
The other occasion is immediately after an RTO. After the a/c has been brought to a complete stop, the PF coordinates with the tower while the PNF immediately launches into ECAM actions without being prompted by the PF - time is of the essence here.
I am prepared to be enlightened with contrary opinions.
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: pre-dep area
Posts: 163
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Enlightened tehrefore I hope you will be:
During RTO, it is the PNF who advises the tower about the reject, not the PF. This is supposed to be done "whenever practicable" (70 knots?).
The PF sets the park brakes, does the alert PA, then order ECAM actions (if applicable).
During RTO, it is the PNF who advises the tower about the reject, not the PF. This is supposed to be done "whenever practicable" (70 knots?).
The PF sets the park brakes, does the alert PA, then order ECAM actions (if applicable).
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Yellow Brick Road
Posts: 1,127
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
the PF coordinates with the tower
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Uh... Where was I?
Posts: 1,338
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Agree in the packs thing.
Disagree in the RTO. I have been taught not to do anything but monitor reverse deployment and deceleration until parking brake is set. I don't know if this is airbus specific or in the airlines I have flown.
Of course, if the RTO is al low speed or in a long runway and your heart rate is normal, then you can call tower before that. Otherwise I think it is much better to stick to the many times rehearsed drill, monitor the RTO and do nothing, say nothing till the park brake is set.
anyway I think the tower controler will be aware of the RTO well before the airplane comes to a stop.
Cpt solipsist
I don't think of it as you do. I separate each thing. PF can leave comms to the PNF if he so wishes, or take the radio later rather than immediately.
And there is the old confusing moment when, for instance, the FO is PF. Because the captain will set the tasks. Many times he will initiate the ECAM actions without waiting for the FO to give the command (very frequently in my sim and real life experience). Therefore, many times, before you have ended the sentence "... controls" they are already pushing buttons all over the panels and even FCU. I decided not to race with such captains some time ago because it makes me nervous and I feel pushed to do things in a rushed manner, without paying due attention to flying and navigating. since they have already split the team, I focus on the fly-nav and request their assistance if needed (sometimes insisting several times in "set HDG xxx or V/S xxx" before they have the courtesy to do it). If flight path and navigation are satisfactory I wonder if there is any communication required. If so, I do the comm (usually a brief nature of failure and intentions). Only then I pay attention to the ECAM. Then we are a team again. Sometimes it is the reverse: they are PF and command ECAM actions when they still have the THR LK pulsing or there is need for a few FCU inputs and he "wants" to be all alone barely flying the airplane while watching you anxiously to push some panel pushbutton. Then I do my job and assist him in flying navigating before proceeding with the ECAM.
It is better to let the team be split and ensure proper flight path and navigation than remain a team without doing it and with both heads down.
I think there is still a lot to be improved in CRM and CRM training.
Disagree in the RTO. I have been taught not to do anything but monitor reverse deployment and deceleration until parking brake is set. I don't know if this is airbus specific or in the airlines I have flown.
Of course, if the RTO is al low speed or in a long runway and your heart rate is normal, then you can call tower before that. Otherwise I think it is much better to stick to the many times rehearsed drill, monitor the RTO and do nothing, say nothing till the park brake is set.
anyway I think the tower controler will be aware of the RTO well before the airplane comes to a stop.
Cpt solipsist
I don't think of it as you do. I separate each thing. PF can leave comms to the PNF if he so wishes, or take the radio later rather than immediately.
And there is the old confusing moment when, for instance, the FO is PF. Because the captain will set the tasks. Many times he will initiate the ECAM actions without waiting for the FO to give the command (very frequently in my sim and real life experience). Therefore, many times, before you have ended the sentence "... controls" they are already pushing buttons all over the panels and even FCU. I decided not to race with such captains some time ago because it makes me nervous and I feel pushed to do things in a rushed manner, without paying due attention to flying and navigating. since they have already split the team, I focus on the fly-nav and request their assistance if needed (sometimes insisting several times in "set HDG xxx or V/S xxx" before they have the courtesy to do it). If flight path and navigation are satisfactory I wonder if there is any communication required. If so, I do the comm (usually a brief nature of failure and intentions). Only then I pay attention to the ECAM. Then we are a team again. Sometimes it is the reverse: they are PF and command ECAM actions when they still have the THR LK pulsing or there is need for a few FCU inputs and he "wants" to be all alone barely flying the airplane while watching you anxiously to push some panel pushbutton. Then I do my job and assist him in flying navigating before proceeding with the ECAM.
It is better to let the team be split and ensure proper flight path and navigation than remain a team without doing it and with both heads down.
I think there is still a lot to be improved in CRM and CRM training.
Last edited by Microburst2002; 7th May 2011 at 17:04.
Ecam actions I would perform as pnf are:-
Announce failure
Look at SD to confirm failure
Having confirmed failure and with no action to perform press Clear pb having coordinated with pf
Review Status with pf
Review Inop systems with pf
Press Clear again to return Ecam to normal operation
Then consult QRH/FCOM as appropriate.
Resume normal comms handling as pnf
I always believe that the word CLEAR has two meanings with regard ecam handling.
The first is that the pf has understood what the failure is and that he is aware what actions have been performed(Al ist klar) and secondly to remove the failure on ecam.
Announce failure
Look at SD to confirm failure
Having confirmed failure and with no action to perform press Clear pb having coordinated with pf
Review Status with pf
Review Inop systems with pf
Press Clear again to return Ecam to normal operation
Then consult QRH/FCOM as appropriate.
Resume normal comms handling as pnf
I always believe that the word CLEAR has two meanings with regard ecam handling.
The first is that the pf has understood what the failure is and that he is aware what actions have been performed(Al ist klar) and secondly to remove the failure on ecam.
Join Date: Feb 1998
Location: Formerly of Nam
Posts: 1,595
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Misunderstanding here. Of course the PNF advises the tower initially (I agree after the 70 kts call is good) but the responsibility splits thereafter. The PF gathers info from the tower / fire crews and meanwhile PNF proceeds with ECAM off his/her own bat (your SOPs may differ here). The pathways then regroup to decide whether an evacuation is necessary, and if so, proceed to the paper checklist. Any substantial variations from this theme ?
advises tower, 70kts etc. CM1 to full stop and park brake,
PA the girls then "I have communications, ECAM actions".
CM2 does the ECAM actions while CM1 talks to tower/fire
chief as the case may be. CM1 decides if an evacuation is
necessary, has a quick chew of the cud with CM2, then on
command the CM2 pulls the Evac checklist.
Off topic but a pet pissoff is when I ask the other guy to
activate the approach phase. He acknowledges the request,
pushes the button and then asks "Confirm?" Um..well yeh
that's what I asked for! The amber "Confirm" is like the
EXEC button on the Boeing - "Sure this is what you want
bud, or were you a shmuck and accidently selected the
blue "Activate Approach Phase" by mistake?"
Last edited by Slasher; 9th May 2011 at 21:06.
