Required Number of QRHs in Flight Deck

[JABBARA]

Hello Folks

According to EU OPS 1 or any relevant regulation, do you know how many QRH is required to be carried on board?

If this is a Airplane Type required matter, then I am specifying my question:
How many QRH is required to be carried on Airbus FBW family?

Thanks in advance

[9.G]

The answer is 2. QRH is part of the aircraft library not the equipment!

[JABBARA]

9 G

Thank you for your answer,

Obviously QRH is not a part in MEL items. What I mean with "Type", e.g. A 330, which has ECAM, may require less number of QRH than other conventional types.

Well, in my previous company we used to carry "2" QRHs, but here in the new now only "1" (Stiil EU OPS/JAR OPS referred). I am just trying to proove "2" needed, but no reference yet.

Do you have any refernce for this?

Thanks

[grounded27]

A QRH is a convienance doccument, unless specified otherwise by your carrier 0 required, it abbreviates the other aircraft operating manuals that are required.

[9.G]

The content of the aircraft library is part of the certification process thus it should be listed in the content of the aircraft's library as per AOC. Look up the certification requirements of the a/c type in particular which docs does it include. I don't have the reference ad hoc there, sorry!

[grounded27]

The aircraft library is dictated by your CAA, this list is usually well published as required by your CAA.

[9.G]

OK, here is an excerpt from the CS 25

Other Sources of Procedures Information. The flight crew of large transport category aeroplanes typically use other sources of operating procedures information other than the AFM. Examples of other sources of operating procedures information include manufacturer- or operator- produced operating manuals, Quick Reference Handbooks (QRH), System Pilot’s Guides and Emergency or Abnormal Checklists. For these aeroplanes, items such as cockpit checklists, systems descriptions, and the associated normal procedures should not be presented in the AFM if they are provided in other documents acceptable to the Agency. Normal procedures that are necessary for safe operation should be presented in the AFM, but the remaining normal procedures should be placed in the manufacturer produced FCOM (or other acceptable sources of operating procedures information). The non-normal procedures section of the AFM for these types of aeroplanes should include, as a minimum, procedures dictated by the aeroplane’s system and failure modes, and may also include those emergency procedures listed in paragraph 6.c(5) of this AMC. Whenever procedures are provided in another source rather than the AFM, a statement should be placed in the appropriate procedures section of the AFM referencing where the detailed procedures information can be found.

Airbus clearly prescribes the priorities as ECAM, QRH and if time permits FCOM. Also bear in mind that OEBs when affected by ECAM refer to QRH and as airbus defines the roles to alter as PF/PNF each crew member must have a access to it instantly.

[grounded27]

Airbus clearly prescribes the priorities as ECAM, QRH and if time permits FCOM. Also bear in mind that OEBs when affected by ECAM refer to QRH and as airbus defines the roles to alter as PF/PNF each crew member must have a access to it instantly.

Each airline has a doccument list, at mine the QRH (even on Airbus) is not required, but listed. FCOM allways is.

[aviatorhi]

Ok so if we put it in the middle that's 1 "required".

I've only flown at 1 airline that had a QRH anyway, everywhere else we just used the manual/memory.

[9.G]

G27, I doubt you've read FCOM1 of airbus coz it clearly states:

ORGANIZATION OF THE MANUAL

FOREWORD
This manual complements the approved Flight Manual. Airbus has attempted to ensure that the data contained in this manual agrees with the data in the Flight Manual. If there is any disagreement, the Flight Manual is the final authority.

COMMENTS — QUESTIONS — SUGGESTIONS
All manual holders and users are encouraged to submit any Flight Crew Operating Manual questions and suggestions to :

CONTENT

The Flight Crew Operating Manual (FCOM), and the associated Quick Reference Handbook (QRH), are developed specifically for flight crews, in order to provide them with all of the necessary information about the operational, technical, procedural, and performance characteristics that are required for the safe and efficient aircraft operation. These manuals take into account all of the operational procedures to be applied during normal and abnormal/emergency situations that may occur on ground or in flight.

[grounded27]

9g

You have no clear understanding of what an opspec is and the governance in the doccuments that follow, per fleet under it. Ours does not require a QRH to be onboard for dispach. Read your reference, no where does it say any of these manuals have to be onboard for flight..

[9.G]

G27, sorry mate but you're grounded. It's been proven FCOMs and QRH are essential part of certification and constitute airworthness of the a/c. Here's what Eu Ops says about it:
- OPS 1.290 - Flight preparation

(a) An operator shall ensure that an operational flight plan is completed for each intended flight. (b) The commander shall not commence a flight unless he/she is satisfied that: 1. the aeroplane is airworthy; 2. the aeroplane is not operated contrary to the provision of the configuration deviation list (CDL); 3. the instruments and equipment required for the flight to be conducted, in accordance with Subparts K and L, are available; 4. the instruments and equipment are in operable condition except as provided in the MEL; 5. those parts of the operations manual which are required for the conduct of the flight are available; 6. the documents, additional information and forms required to be available by EU - OPS 1.125 and EU - OPS 1.135 are on board;
Why else would all those airlines spend money and equip their aircrafts with the library? Come on mate, think about it.

[aviatorhi]

What about aircraft which were certified without a QRH at all, the 727 for instance (I believe that's mine and "Grounded's" common turf)?

In the text that you quoted there 9.G you'll notice that the Flight Manual 'reigns supreme' amongst all other manuals, as such it should technically be the only manual that is "required" for flight, based on the information in the "FOREWORD".

[9.G]

Well, then you're both grounded I'm afraid. Here's what AFM of airbus says about the reigns supreme of AFM:

Ident.: GEN-INTR-00005876.0001001 / 26 NOV 09 EASA APPROVED Criteria: A330
This Airplane Flight Manual (AFM) is a reference document published in English. It is not established as an operational document to be used directly by the crew in flight. Flight crew documents available in flight must include an Operational Manual, with appropriate contents and language as required by the National Regulations.
Note: Any Flight Crew Operating Manual (FCOM) reference within the AFM must be considered as advisory information, the FCOM being a non approved document.This AFM is specific to a given certified aircraft model, which is specified in the Heading Approbation Documentary Unit (Refer to APPRO-HEAD Heading Approbation) and Approval Reference Documentary Unit (Refer to APPRO-ENV Approval Reference) of this AFM. It was approved by the Direction Générale de l'Aviation Civile (DGAC) prior to 28 September 2003 and is since approved by the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA). When applicable, it is approved by the EASA on behalf and according to the requirements of the importing Authority, e.g. the US Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) for US registered aircraft.

Perhaps Boeing is different but not airbus coz it's been written by lawyers not pilots.

[JABBARA]

Thank you for all answers,

That is sure at least 1 QRH should be on board, but it is still not clear the 2nd is required.

Anyway, I should also state the origin of this thread, maybe it helps.

During the SAFA inspection of one of the company (JAR) airplane in a JAR member country, absence of second QRH is recorded as findings. That`s why this discussion is started whether the 2nd QRH is really required.


Thank you

[9.G]

JABBARA, I was gonna say one inspection by the authorities and the issue is quickly resolved. Sorry, as usual, the thread drifted away from the original question. I'll try to look up the had floor reference but preliminary I can think of the approved content of the aircraft's documentation on board. Have a look at the aircraft docs folder where AOC, OPS specs etc are to be found.

[aviatorhi]

In which case Airbii's lawyers are worth as much as Arbii (not a whole lot in my book).

FOREWORD
This manual complements the approved Flight Manual. Airbus has attempted to ensure that the data contained in this manual agrees with the data in the Flight Manual. If there is any disagreement, the Flight Manual is the final authority.

This Airplane Flight Manual (AFM) is a reference document published in English. It is not established as an operational document to be used directly by the crew in flight.

So on the one hand they're saying that it is the final authority, except that it's not an established document to be used in flight. Which is it Airbus?

It would seem the ultimate answer to the question is the minimum number as prescribed by the manufacturer, which is either one or none.

[smallfry]

In my company its One. The theory is that you cant both be reading the QRH anyway.. Somebody has to 'fly the plane'. Two pilots heads down when airborne is a No no in our SOPs.
So as long as PNF can reach it....

[9.G]

aviatorhi, it's simple once understood. AFM is approved manual- NOT to be used in flight. FCOM & QRH aren't approved but suplemental to AFM TO BE USED in flight according to airbus. The reasons behind are, firstly, to be able to sell the aircrafts in ''raw conditions'' ready for certification by national authorities, secondly, to escape liability. Once again it's written by lawyers not for pilots. Back to the question 1 or 2?

P.S. consequently both AFM & FCOMs+ QRH are carried on board.

[aviatorhi]

If something is the final authority then it better be onboard the airplane in flight, otherwise it's completley and utterly illogical. However Airbus chooses to structure their manual requirments is up to them, and I hope to never have to learn, but that would dictate that the minimum required on board is based on the certification of the aircraft, hence;

The correct answer is 0 or 1. I wonder how you're gonna go about telling me that an aircraft which was certified without a QRH suddenly requires a QRH. As mentioned 2 posts back only the PNF should really need a QRH available to them, don't see a need for 2 onboard in that case.