A330/40 RTO and Evacuation
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: England
Posts: 488
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A330/40 RTO and Evacuation
In the event of an RTO for an engine fire the ECAM requires that the affected engine is shut down and both agents discharged into it. The next ECAM line requires the other Eng Master(s) to be selected OFF.
The FCTM states:
"The first officer carries out the ECAM until shutting down the remaining engines(s)
The captain build his decision to evacuate depending on the circumstances..."
I cannot decide how this should be interpreted.
1. The remaining engines are shut-down whilst the captain is still building his decison. This leaves the aircraft without power on the runway before the captain has made a decision about an evacuation. If an evacuation is not necessary the aircraft is left in an awkward situation.
2. The FO holds the ECAM before shutting-down the remaining engines. If an evacuation is necessary the operative engines are shut-down as part of the Emergency Evacuation Checklist. If the captain decides that an evacuation is not necessary, the engine(s) remain running.
Option 2 seems more sensible, but the graphic in the FCTM that shows the task-sharing seems to support Option 1.
I wondered what your company instructors teach?
The FCTM states:
"The first officer carries out the ECAM until shutting down the remaining engines(s)
The captain build his decision to evacuate depending on the circumstances..."
I cannot decide how this should be interpreted.
1. The remaining engines are shut-down whilst the captain is still building his decison. This leaves the aircraft without power on the runway before the captain has made a decision about an evacuation. If an evacuation is not necessary the aircraft is left in an awkward situation.
2. The FO holds the ECAM before shutting-down the remaining engines. If an evacuation is necessary the operative engines are shut-down as part of the Emergency Evacuation Checklist. If the captain decides that an evacuation is not necessary, the engine(s) remain running.
Option 2 seems more sensible, but the graphic in the FCTM that shows the task-sharing seems to support Option 1.
I wondered what your company instructors teach?
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: paradise
Posts: 559
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Brain Potter, follow the FCTM. In case of fire your priority is to evacuate ASAP in case the fire isn't contained. Not shutting down the remaining engines makes you lose valuable time. In case of evacuation you certainly need to have the escape path clear for the folks jumping out of the plane. 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: MC80 Home One type Star Cruiser
Posts: 192
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The way we train it on A320 (seems the same procedure):
-FO follows the ECAM and shuts down the second engine.
-AC goes dark and the Evacuation checklist is being completed which is initially a continuation of the Eng Fire on ground checklist together with confirmation of some memory items.
-We push all Fire Pb's and discharge all agents (Eng and APU. Only Agent 1 in fact, since AC is only powered by the batteries.)
-Last item of the checklist: 2 options: Evacuation required or Evacuation not required.
In case it's not required, we are stuck on the runway and need towing.
I don't know if our Evacuation checklist is a company procedure or an Airbus procedure. I guess company, since I can't find it in the FCOM.
Like 9.G said, follow the FCTM. And in case of doubt ask your training department.
-FO follows the ECAM and shuts down the second engine.
-AC goes dark and the Evacuation checklist is being completed which is initially a continuation of the Eng Fire on ground checklist together with confirmation of some memory items.
-We push all Fire Pb's and discharge all agents (Eng and APU. Only Agent 1 in fact, since AC is only powered by the batteries.)
-Last item of the checklist: 2 options: Evacuation required or Evacuation not required.
In case it's not required, we are stuck on the runway and need towing.
I don't know if our Evacuation checklist is a company procedure or an Airbus procedure. I guess company, since I can't find it in the FCOM.
Like 9.G said, follow the FCTM. And in case of doubt ask your training department.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: England
Posts: 488
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Looking at the FCTM again. If the line:
The first officer carries out the ECAM actions until shutting down the
remaining engine(s).
was meant to be include shutting-down the engines, rather than stopping at that point, then how can the following paragraph include a consideration that involves taxying?
. The captain builds up his decision to evacuate depending on the
circumstances. Considerations should be given to:
-- Possible passenger evacuation of the aircraft on the runway.
-- Vacating the runway as soon as possible.
-- Communicating intentions or requests to ATC
I have now unearthed a 2005 CX FCTM which is heavily re-written from the Airbus original (in better English) and it says:
If the take-off has been rejected due to an engine fire, ECAM actions should be completed down to and including discharging the fire agents into the affected engine. If the fire remains out of control after having discharged the fire agents, the on ground EMERGENCY EVACUATION paper checklist should be actioned.
Which supports the idea that the remaining engines are shut-down in the Emergency Evacuation Checklist not the ECAM.
Personally, I cannot see why performing the shut-down as part of the Emer Evac checklist would cost any evacuation time. The engines would still be shut-down before the evac signal was triggered in the cabin.
The first officer carries out the ECAM actions until shutting down the
remaining engine(s).
was meant to be include shutting-down the engines, rather than stopping at that point, then how can the following paragraph include a consideration that involves taxying?
. The captain builds up his decision to evacuate depending on the
circumstances. Considerations should be given to:
-- Possible passenger evacuation of the aircraft on the runway.
-- Vacating the runway as soon as possible.
-- Communicating intentions or requests to ATC
I have now unearthed a 2005 CX FCTM which is heavily re-written from the Airbus original (in better English) and it says:
If the take-off has been rejected due to an engine fire, ECAM actions should be completed down to and including discharging the fire agents into the affected engine. If the fire remains out of control after having discharged the fire agents, the on ground EMERGENCY EVACUATION paper checklist should be actioned.
Which supports the idea that the remaining engines are shut-down in the Emergency Evacuation Checklist not the ECAM.
Personally, I cannot see why performing the shut-down as part of the Emer Evac checklist would cost any evacuation time. The engines would still be shut-down before the evac signal was triggered in the cabin.
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Cattolica
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A320 evacuation.
On the Training Manual, at the chapter ”Introduction to emerg. evac” part “Decision making”, is reported:
‐ As soon as aircraft is stopped, and the parking brake is set, the captain notifies the cabin crew and calls for ECAM ACTIONS. At this stage, the task sharing is defined as follow:
- the evacuation decision has to be made at the end of the QRH procedure (req or not req), and during that, you cut all engines (like the ECAM).
- It seems that the picture considers the old qrh evacuation procedure that is, if you enter the paper procedure, you have ALREADY decided to evacuate. The FCTM picture is very confusing. On one side the arrow “cpt decision + announcement”. The other arrow will send you to the QRH where the evacuation decision has to be done AT THE END.
For me, the QRH is the only logical sequence to decide.
‐ As soon as aircraft is stopped, and the parking brake is set, the captain notifies the cabin crew and calls for ECAM ACTIONS. At this stage, the task sharing is defined as follow:
- the evacuation decision has to be made at the end of the QRH procedure (req or not req), and during that, you cut all engines (like the ECAM).
- It seems that the picture considers the old qrh evacuation procedure that is, if you enter the paper procedure, you have ALREADY decided to evacuate. The FCTM picture is very confusing. On one side the arrow “cpt decision + announcement”. The other arrow will send you to the QRH where the evacuation decision has to be done AT THE END.
For me, the QRH is the only logical sequence to decide.
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 1,958
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Brain, Option 1 is what is taught at our company.
Yes it leaves you shut down without power. And yes it will mean restarting an engine if you decide to taxi away. The reasoning is that this is better than commencing a checklist which commits to evac even if the fire goes while it's being carried out.
Yes it leaves you shut down without power. And yes it will mean restarting an engine if you decide to taxi away. The reasoning is that this is better than commencing a checklist which commits to evac even if the fire goes while it's being carried out.
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Milkway Galaxy
Posts: 240
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Brain Potter,
A 330 FWC new standard assumes no paper checklist usage if evacuation is required after an RTO due to either ENGINE or APU FIRE.
It is not your problem if the airplane is stuck on the runway after a successful and professional RTO due to FIRE.
Make it simple, follow ECAM, shutdown all engines. Do not worry about dark cockpit to search paper checklist; if evacuation is required keep reading ECAM in front of you which keeps displaying same items for evacuation which is normally available in QRH.
If you do not believe me, when you are doing fire test on ground, do not release test button after CRC (but of course silence it), now keep reading FIRE ECAM steps on E/WD, if you keep clearing till end (green arrow), you will see all QRH Evacuation Paper Checklist items are there.
A 330 FWC new standard assumes no paper checklist usage if evacuation is required after an RTO due to either ENGINE or APU FIRE.
It is not your problem if the airplane is stuck on the runway after a successful and professional RTO due to FIRE.
Make it simple, follow ECAM, shutdown all engines. Do not worry about dark cockpit to search paper checklist; if evacuation is required keep reading ECAM in front of you which keeps displaying same items for evacuation which is normally available in QRH.
If you do not believe me, when you are doing fire test on ground, do not release test button after CRC (but of course silence it), now keep reading FIRE ECAM steps on E/WD, if you keep clearing till end (green arrow), you will see all QRH Evacuation Paper Checklist items are there.
Last edited by JABBARA; 17th Apr 2015 at 11:11.
ECAM logic for Ground and Air Engine Fire are different.
On the ground the ECAM includes the lines for shutting down the other Engine BUT after the Fire warning goes out the ECAM removes these lines to shutdown the other Engine.
Hence you can still leave it running unless you do wish to shutdown and get out!!
That is what I was shown in the Sim, sit on your hands for a few seconds after you discharge the bottles, if the warning goes out then the ECAM reconfigures itself.
I've seen this in the Sim. We carried out an RTO due Engine Fire, ran the ECAM and were about to shutdown the other Engine when the Sim instructor said. "Hold on, give the ECAM time........see now the Fires out the ECAM has removed the shutdown other Engine and EVAC lines"
Don't rush too much, give it a little time. Time you will be using to decide the need to evacuate or not anyway while you discuss with Fire services, ATC cabin crew etc.
Most likely you will shutdown the other Engine anyway after Fire services arrive. But at least you will have time to start the APU to provide power especially at night.
Each situation will be different and you will have to make decisions at the time just be aware the ECAM removes those lines after the Fire goes out...
On the ground the ECAM includes the lines for shutting down the other Engine BUT after the Fire warning goes out the ECAM removes these lines to shutdown the other Engine.
Hence you can still leave it running unless you do wish to shutdown and get out!!
That is what I was shown in the Sim, sit on your hands for a few seconds after you discharge the bottles, if the warning goes out then the ECAM reconfigures itself.
I've seen this in the Sim. We carried out an RTO due Engine Fire, ran the ECAM and were about to shutdown the other Engine when the Sim instructor said. "Hold on, give the ECAM time........see now the Fires out the ECAM has removed the shutdown other Engine and EVAC lines"
Don't rush too much, give it a little time. Time you will be using to decide the need to evacuate or not anyway while you discuss with Fire services, ATC cabin crew etc.
Most likely you will shutdown the other Engine anyway after Fire services arrive. But at least you will have time to start the APU to provide power especially at night.
Each situation will be different and you will have to make decisions at the time just be aware the ECAM removes those lines after the Fire goes out...
Last edited by ACMS; 18th Apr 2015 at 07:55.
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Or-E-Gun, USA
Posts: 326
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Good Discussion
All responses strike me as well considered and mostly appropriate in a variety of situations. That said, IMO, the most important point was hardly touched upon: If, after reviewing the various manuals and QRH materials, the pilot is still not perfectly clear about the procedures, Ask Your Training Department! Responding to such inquiries is an important part of what they are supposed to do!!! There is No Shame (think Loss of Face if Asian), in asking for clarification and additional review. Frankly, the only foolish action is NOT asking for clarification. And, as always, one must follow the company's published procedures. (I know... sometimes they are stupid ant in come cases even wrong, but that simply must be the method!) While discussion in this space is helpful, perhaps stimulating for some, this space is darn sure not the ultimate authority for ANY operating procedure. 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Wanderlust
Posts: 3,403
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hello everybody
I couldn't agree more with NFZ in general. Airbus industry has a website airbus world only available to it's customers. It is password protected and airlines are supposed to give access to their pilots. This has nice pictorial presentations and discussions on many issues that go beyond FCOMS. I was surprised that many operators keep this as a secret or are simply not interested. If line pilots had access to it you wouldn't find any airbus pilot asking at least the theoretical questions on this forum. The airline Ops division should write to airbusFBW STDs and seek clarifications before changing any procedures but many rarely do it.
In 2008 the reason for the change in ENG FIRE and EVAC procedure was nicely explained. The difference in A320 and A330/340 procedure comes from the fact that on the A330/340 after all engines are shut all DUs remain supplied through batteries while on A320 they are not. The old procedure for both was similar till All engine masters Off. At this point A320 ECAM disappeared and you had to switch to EVAC paper procedure in the dark or dim light. So they modified both A330/A340 and A320 procedures so that they are similar to a point. Previously ATC(VHF) Notify came after the second engine was shut down when A320 went blank. New procedure is based on following logic:
Stop the aircraft: Thrust levers idle, when A/C stopped Parking brakes ON
Communicate: ATC(VHF1)..Notify, Cabin crew(PA)..Alert
Manage the fire: Engine master Off(Affected), Fire PB..Push(Affected), Agents 1+2 Discharge.
Secure the aircraft for evacuation: Delta pressure..Check zero, Engine masters.. all off, Fire PB Engine and APU..Push, Agents Eng and APU..As reqd.
Then comes Evac required/not required.
For A320, after Agent 1+2 discharge they added EMER EVAC PROC Apply so you move to paper procedure first in good light and do everything from it as shut down the other engine etc.
Since captain may need to communicate with fire services/ATC to build his decision the CM2 does everything on his own till he reads EVAC required?
At this point the get together again.
Waiting to check whether fire is out is a debatable point because how long to wait is not specified and it may aggravate and valuable time may be lost.
I couldn't agree more with NFZ in general. Airbus industry has a website airbus world only available to it's customers. It is password protected and airlines are supposed to give access to their pilots. This has nice pictorial presentations and discussions on many issues that go beyond FCOMS. I was surprised that many operators keep this as a secret or are simply not interested. If line pilots had access to it you wouldn't find any airbus pilot asking at least the theoretical questions on this forum. The airline Ops division should write to airbusFBW STDs and seek clarifications before changing any procedures but many rarely do it.
In 2008 the reason for the change in ENG FIRE and EVAC procedure was nicely explained. The difference in A320 and A330/340 procedure comes from the fact that on the A330/340 after all engines are shut all DUs remain supplied through batteries while on A320 they are not. The old procedure for both was similar till All engine masters Off. At this point A320 ECAM disappeared and you had to switch to EVAC paper procedure in the dark or dim light. So they modified both A330/A340 and A320 procedures so that they are similar to a point. Previously ATC(VHF) Notify came after the second engine was shut down when A320 went blank. New procedure is based on following logic:
Stop the aircraft: Thrust levers idle, when A/C stopped Parking brakes ON
Communicate: ATC(VHF1)..Notify, Cabin crew(PA)..Alert
Manage the fire: Engine master Off(Affected), Fire PB..Push(Affected), Agents 1+2 Discharge.
Secure the aircraft for evacuation: Delta pressure..Check zero, Engine masters.. all off, Fire PB Engine and APU..Push, Agents Eng and APU..As reqd.
Then comes Evac required/not required.
For A320, after Agent 1+2 discharge they added EMER EVAC PROC Apply so you move to paper procedure first in good light and do everything from it as shut down the other engine etc.
Since captain may need to communicate with fire services/ATC to build his decision the CM2 does everything on his own till he reads EVAC required?
At this point the get together again.
Waiting to check whether fire is out is a debatable point because how long to wait is not specified and it may aggravate and valuable time may be lost.
Last edited by vilas; 19th Apr 2015 at 04:11.
