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Concorde question

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Concorde question

Old 18th Aug 2011, 15:54
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I partly read the book, "By the Rivers of Babylon". Threw it away when I reached the bit about the Concord with an APU (I am not a Concord pilot).
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Old 18th Aug 2011, 17:21
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Originally Posted by DunePrune
I partly read the book, "By the Rivers of Babylon". Threw it away when I reached the bit about the Concord with an APU (I am not a Concord pilot).
DunePrune, the book wasn't THAT bad.
And, as you may have seen earlier in this thread, the notion of a Concorde with an APU wasn't all that far-fetched, especially for an El-Al Concorde.
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Old 19th Aug 2011, 04:24
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I seem to remember that there was no runway in the story, so the pilot just landed his APU equiped Concord in the desert. I am a desert pilot. The author was off his patch and poaching on mine.
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Old 20th Aug 2011, 21:31
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Dune Prune; as a pilot myself I long gave up on the film industry poaching on my patch! Life's too short.... the trangressions too numerous!
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Old 21st Aug 2011, 10:07
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Quite right SSD. Those were my only two posts since joining this forum. I'll maintain a decorous silence from now on.
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Old 21st Aug 2011, 15:14
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THAT ******ing BOOK

Hey DunePrune don't go...... you voiced a perfectly valid point about that book, voiced from the point of view of a pilot too. I think I speak for the majority of posters when I say that you are most welcome here, please carry on posting.
As far as the book goes, well I suppose just like most books it's a rather subjective thing but PERSONALLY I think that book was total crap!! Apart from the old 'Concorde APU' side of things (and I still chuckle at the thought of a sizable pneumatic pipe, carrying HOT passing air through a large fuel tank trying to get certification) there were also several other goofs that gave one the idea that the author was, ahem... not very 'plane minded'. Placing the bomb inside Tank 11 'before it was welded shut' shows total ignorance as far as the way that aircraft are built. The other one was the description of locating a wire by it's colour and the colour of a tracer within that wire. Concorde, just like most aircraft used plain white Poly-X or yellow Kapton Liquid-H cable with circuit identification printed on the cable at regular lengths.
All you did was to voice your very valid opinion here, so don't stop posting DunePrune and stay around.

Last edited by M2dude; 24th Aug 2011 at 16:37.
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Old 21st Aug 2011, 15:59
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I'll echo M2's sentiment - stay around Dune and keep on posting. This is a friendly thread! And one that I have found extremely interesting.
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Old 24th Aug 2011, 21:29
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Hi all,

I'm a humble PPLer, and have been (speed) reading the last 70 pages...a fabulous story, of engineering and operational excellence, which I will read again at length when time permits.

I have only seen Concorde in the flesh on a few occasions...generally while passing through LHR.

But in October 2003, I had the privilege to watch the final Concorde take-off from Belfast at close quarters. I was standing at the GA Apron at Aldergrove as she took off on runway 07, actually getting off the ground barely 150yds from where we stood. I was among a crowd of local aviation buffs, all of whom had managed to cajole, bluff, and persuade their way into the GA area to see her go. And it was awesome. The afterburner roar rippled through my body, the noise was deafening, the reheat flame was mesmerising, but above all she was a beautiful creation.

Art comes in many forms, and to my mind, Concorde was up there with the works of all the great masters.

Last edited by NWSRG; 24th Aug 2011 at 21:41.
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Old 9th Sep 2011, 18:27
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Saw BOAG this weekend

I was in Seattle for a wedding this weekend, and got to see BOAG at the Museum of Flight.

It was gratifying, but I can't say she's in stellar condition. I'd give her a solid "B" grade. For one thing, it drives me nuts that all the literature and display placards all say "the Concorde." I far prefer Concorde to stand on her own. Her paint was dull and oxidized, and the exhibit sort of stands alone, without much in the way of history or surrounding material. It pained me a bit to see her outside in the Seattle weather, too. The interior is nice, being cordoned off by plexiglass that could stand a replacement sometime soon. I didn't see peeling paint.

That said, it was a spectacularly more enjoyable experience than the last time I saw Concorde F-BVFA at the Udvar Hazy museum in DC, thanks completely to this thread. I noticed things I'd never seen before, and took a much more profound appreciation of things like the curve and droop of the wing leading edge and the complexity of the engine intakes... and I loved seeing the difference in fuel consumption numbers between Concorde and the SR-71 also on display. My wife thinks I'm a genius because I knew why #4 engine was N1 limited below 60kt and what the little 3/4 tag to the left of the engine EGT gauges was for.

Thanks again to all the knowledgeable individuals on this thread.
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Old 9th Sep 2011, 18:45
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Originally Posted by asc12
My wife thinks I'm a genius because I knew why #4 engine was N1 limited below 60kt and what the little 3/4 tag to the left of the engine EGT gauges was for.
I daren't use the language my wife uses to describe me for knowing that!
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Old 9th Sep 2011, 18:59
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I think M2dude had something to do with developing that 3/4 flag!
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Old 9th Sep 2011, 20:31
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My wife thinks I'm a very odd, slightly obsessed, guy who knows too much about airplanes he doesn't fly.

I bet I know more about Concorde than the Cirrus I'm actually able to fly. Don't look at me that way-- no forum I frequent has ever had a "Cirrus Question" topic nearly as engaging as this one.
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Old 9th Sep 2011, 21:04
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Concorde, the love of our lives

Nice one guys. I honestly is a pleasure to share my experiences (and feeble knowledge) of the aeroplane with so many wonderful people here, be they aviation professionals, former supersonic SLF or just inerested enthusiasts. Guys and gals, just keep posting away here and remember there is no such thing as a stupid question.
Unless of course it's from me. 'What pert of the aeroplane was manufactured by a division of General Motors in the USA?'.
Oh Shaggy, can't claim credit for the 3/4 flag, or reheat capability indicator', but I remember having a right chuckle when we fitted this highly comples piece of precision engineering () in the early eighties. I thought it was some kind of belated April Fools's joke.
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Old 16th Sep 2011, 13:36
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Sad news on the conculsion of the project in Manchester. Lets hope something can move forward in the future.

Onto this 3/4 tab on the EGT? Can someone tell me more? Or point me in the direction? I have one of Concorde's EGT gauges sat on my TV at home. Extra facts about it to bore visitors with would be brilliant!
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Old 16th Sep 2011, 13:45
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Hi Philflies
The 3/4 tab mounted by the #4 EGT indicator had in fact nothing to do with the EGT indication at all. It wasa reheat capability indicator and was set by the crew prior to take off. Set to 4 meant that all 4 reheats were required for take-off (and if one failed it then meant that the take-off should be rejected). Set to 3 it meant that a single reheat failure could be tolerated and the take-off could continue.
I hope this helps Philflies.
Oh and check out the website BRINGING CONCORDE G-BOAC BACK TO LIFE - Welcome The fat lady aint singing yet. Also check out the Concorde comes alive thread here too.

Last edited by M2dude; 16th Sep 2011 at 16:21.
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Old 17th Sep 2011, 11:27
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UPDATE UPDATE

It seems that the Concorde comes alive thread has been deleted. This is such a shame, I tried as hard as I could to keep things civil but others hijacked it again, just as the original thread was. Perhaps we may be allowed to post points about G-BOAC in Manchester here, I do hope so because it is such a fascinating story and is a story still being told.
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Old 17th Sep 2011, 11:46
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The thread hasn't been deleted. I have moved it to an internal review place for comment from those higher up the totem pole. It may or may not return depending on the outcome.

Can I suggest that we let the other subject sit for a while ?
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Old 17th Sep 2011, 16:42
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Philflies,

M2dude is right, and IIRC there is already a description of this much earlier in the thread.

The background of the 3/4 tab is, that
... on most aircraft you can - at the start of the take-off - 'run up the engines against the brakes', check they all deliver full power, and release the brakes only then.
... on Concorde it was impossible to 'hold the aircraft on the brakes' while going to full t/o thrust including the reheat (not so much because of insufficient brakes as insufficient 'footprint' of the wheels, IMHO).
... so, full t/o thrust (including reheat) didn't occur until the aircraft had already started the take-off roll.

If, at that point, one of the four reheats didn't light (which did happen at times), you did not have an awful lot of time to decide on whether you could continue 'on three' or had to reject the take-off.
Rather than having to check your pre-flight take-off calculations in a sheaf of papers or rely on your memory of the briefing, that little Heath Robinson "3/4 tab" gadget told you instantly whether to RTO NOW, or whether you could continue the take-off.

Sorry to repeat an old story, but Philflies asked the question, and not everybody has read the entire thread.....
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Old 17th Sep 2011, 17:04
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The thread hasn't been deleted. I have moved it to an internal review place for comment from those higher up the totem pole. It may or may not return depending on the outcome.
Maybe it should be in one of the Misc forums?
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Old 17th Sep 2011, 20:13
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Christiaan,
Just to add a bit more to your explanation is that

The reheat decision speed on every take off was 100kts

If the little tag showed 4 then you needed 4 reheats at 100kts to continue
the take-off

If the little tag showed 3 then at 100 kts you could continue the take-off even if one reheat had failed

If above 100kts you could always continue with the take off, even if a reheat had failed [ always required 3 reheats working]

So if it was a "3 reheat day" and a reheat failed prior to 100kts then a further reheat failure between 100kts and V1 would require the take off to be rejected.

Hope that makes sense??
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