Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Tech Log
Reload this Page >

Embraer and the future one-pilot flightdeck

Wikiposts
Search
Tech Log The very best in practical technical discussion on the web

Embraer and the future one-pilot flightdeck

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 16th Jun 2010, 14:52
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: East Molesey, Surrey, UK
Posts: 102
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Embraer and the future one-pilot flightdeck

Embraer is the first to break cover on an issue they're all talking about. The trouble is it raises almost as many problems as the pilotless version.

Here's what they're daring to think: Embraer reveals vision for single-pilot airliners
shortfinals is offline  
Old 16th Jun 2010, 15:02
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Floating around the planet
Posts: 386
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Welll..This day will come for sure...First one pilot ..than the other.....

Even the very modern trains still have a pilot there , so I think it will take a bit longer in aviation.

People and statistics use to mention the number of airplanes we pilots put down , but nobody mention the number of accidents didn`t took place because a pilot was there.
A-3TWENTY is offline  
Old 16th Jun 2010, 15:02
  #3 (permalink)  
Hobby Glue
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
That would be pretty boring on longer flights with nobody to talk to up front. Call me a pessimist but I can hardly see it working. My major issue is pilot incapacitation which does happens every now and then, particularly gastro which can happen eating any sort of dodgy food at any port.
 
Old 16th Jun 2010, 15:07
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: London, UK
Posts: 196
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Roughly what percentage of the running cost of a small - medium airliner is attributable to each pilot ?
oversteer is offline  
Old 16th Jun 2010, 15:23
  #5 (permalink)  

Supercharged PPRuNer
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Doon the watter, a million miles from the sandpit.
Posts: 1,183
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
And what's it going to do when the single pilot becomes incapacitated?

Oh, of course. It'll land itself, without any further pilot input. With 100% reliability.

Simples.
G SXTY is offline  
Old 16th Jun 2010, 15:59
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: on a beach
Age: 68
Posts: 350
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Airlines are not going to give up pay to fly schemes that easy.
beachbumflyer is offline  
Old 16th Jun 2010, 16:35
  #7 (permalink)  
Registered User **
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: USA
Age: 49
Posts: 480
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Looks like the inevitable is being taken seriously by aircraft manufacturers and operators sooner than I thought.
muduckace is offline  
Old 16th Jun 2010, 16:49
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: LHR
Posts: 331
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The begining of the end of an entire profession. Kinda sad really. I hope Embraer and the others fail miserably in their endeavours.
Cloud Bunny is offline  
Old 16th Jun 2010, 18:28
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Boldly going where no split infinitive has gone before..
Posts: 4,789
Received 45 Likes on 21 Posts
I've no doubt a single, highly experienced pilot could handle a largely automated airliner by himself perfectly safely, and that the problems associated with incapacitation could be dealt with.

The question to me would be, how does a pilot GET to be experienced, if aircraft are crewed with only one pilot???
Wizofoz is offline  
Old 16th Jun 2010, 18:54
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Correr es mi destino por no llevar papel
Posts: 1,422
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Seemingly, Embraer has taken a page out of Michael O'Leary's book; any publicity is good publicity.

Realistically, until the day a machine passes the Turing's test, there would be significant and utterly unacceptable (by aviation authorities, that is) redundancy loss by reducing flight deck crew to one.

When the day comes, we'll have much bigger issues to worry about than single-pilot airliners.
Clandestino is offline  
Old 16th Jun 2010, 19:01
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: formally Alamo battleground, now the crocodile with palm trees!
Posts: 960
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Exclamation

Even the very modern trains still have a pilot there , so I think it will take a bit longer in aviation.
Looking at train operators in the US of A, you'll find that the long distance freight and passenger trains have two engineers up front.

Besides single-pilot being a certification issue I can also see insurance companies raising an eyebrow or two. Not sure how the traveling public will react with a single pilot up front.

Why are we so obsessed to replace humans with machines, anyway?
Squawk7777 is offline  
Old 16th Jun 2010, 19:19
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: NW
Posts: 269
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Hiring single pilot captains makes sense...with one UAV pilot on the ground to monitor a fleet of airliners...

Less avionics up front, smaller cockpits...in fact why not just stuff the lone captain in the nose of the plane, lying on his stomach, and use the cockpit for 'super first class passengers'

If they hire midgets, they can cram a pilot into a little seat in the nose...cut a little plexi glass window out for him...he won't eat much, nor need much as he is used to Circus wages....
johns7022 is offline  
Old 16th Jun 2010, 19:29
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: formally Alamo battleground, now the crocodile with palm trees!
Posts: 960
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Exclamation Wait!!!

"Allowing single-crew operation of airliners would provide substantial savings for airlines and help to alleviate forecast pilot shortages once the industry returns to sustained growth."

The first part should really read: "The CEOs/Chairman can get a bigger bonus allowing single-crew operation...". I can't believe we're talking pilot shortage again!!!
Squawk7777 is offline  
Old 16th Jun 2010, 20:19
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cape Town
Age: 69
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Virtual SLF

With the advances in technology such as videoconferencing , we could eventually do away with the passengers as well.
Cattle_Class is offline  
Old 16th Jun 2010, 22:18
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Indonesia
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Embraer looking at Single Pilot Operations

Bit of an interesting one....will it happen?

Embraer is preparing for the possible introduction of airliners designed for single-pilot operation by as early as 2020, following the roll-out of next-generation air traffic management systems in Europe and the USA.
Vice-president for airline market intelligence Luiz Sergio Chiessi says the Brazilian manufacturer is looking to provide "single-pilot capability, at least" in the 2020-25 timeframe.
He cautions, however, that much work needs to be done to persuade the travelling public, regulatory authorities and unions that the concept is feasible.
"It's very difficult to predict that this is going to happen, but I believe that we will have to provide capability for eventual implementation into the real world," says Chiessi.
Embraer is the first airliner manufacturer to publicly acknowledge it is in the early stages of studying single-pilot airliners.



"Airlines are not coming to us with the idea - this is more a vision that we have. We believe that it is technically possible, but we don't know if it is going to be accepted by the public and the authrorities," says Chiessi.
"We believe that by 2020-25 the technology will be available, mainly due to the evolution of the air traffic management systems: NextGen in the USA and SESAR in Europe. We believe that the functions that will come with these new ATM systems will create the possibility of single-pilot [airline operations].
"We haven't moved that far in terms of how to implement the concept. This is more a vision of the future than something that was fully analysed in terms of bits and bytes."
Allowing single-crew operation of airliners would provide substantial savings for airlines and help to alleviate forecast pilot shortages once the industry returns to sustained growth.
Some lower-end business jets such as Embraer's Phenom family are already certificated in certain states for single-pilot operation under Part 91 rules, but customers sometimes demand a two-pilot crew even if it is not required.
"With the electronics you can make a lot of the [cockpit] functions automatic," says Chiessi. "If you take the checklist of a conventional aircraft, for every 10 items you have, there are one or two on the Phenom. Every other action is being taken care of by the electronics."
davelongdon is offline  
Old 16th Jun 2010, 22:34
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Finningley
Age: 51
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
" Every other action is being taken care of by the electronics."

That's the bit that puts me off, as SLF.
monkeytennis is offline  
Old 16th Jun 2010, 23:26
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: alameda
Posts: 1,053
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Face it...a modern jet, say 757, could really be flown by one pilot.

but you lose the second pair of eyes. the redundancy in case of pilot incapacitation is lost.

and why not change to a one engine plane. ?????

I recall when the local subway system, known as BART was introduced. Completely automatic...no train operator was to be required.

and it didn't work out that way...and they put a driver in each train.
protectthehornet is offline  
Old 16th Jun 2010, 23:34
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Indonesia
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
As in the news on here today about the flight attendant co-piloting due to the FO having a stomach bug. You can see the headlines if the single pilot idea was to happen...

Cabin Crew Captains 757

That role may be actually worth the huge Old School BA Cabin Crew wages that somehow they are still striking about :S
davelongdon is offline  
Old 16th Jun 2010, 23:41
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: England
Posts: 118
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
There has been enough news stories over the years of pilots having heart attacks, falling unconcious etc to render this concept completely useless in my opinion.

You don't only have to convince the public/authorities that flying with only one pilot is acceptable, you have to convince them that flying with no pilot whatsoever is also acceptable.
Skittles is offline  
Old 16th Jun 2010, 23:57
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: US
Posts: 251
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Not just Part 91, Embraer's Phenom 100/300 aircraft can be certified for single pilot operation under Part 135 (pax on demand). I know because I am operating one and have the authorization. Whether single pilot operations are a good idea or not is another question but the Feds seem happy enough with the idea, at least as far as on demand charter operations in single pilot type aircraft are concerned.
MU3001A is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.