Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Tech Log
Reload this Page >

AF 447 Search to resume

Tech Log The very best in practical technical discussion on the web

AF 447 Search to resume

Old 3rd Apr 2011, 23:16
  #2881 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: NNW of Antipodes
Age: 80
Posts: 1,330
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Chris Scott

The French branch of the Association have a website as noted in my earlier post. The Brazilian Association may have a similar site, but I have not located it. Both the Associations are recognized by the French Ministry of Transport, and it would appear to a lesser extent by the BEA. Neither Association has representatives onboard the "Alucia".

The Phase 5 Recovery operation will swing into action from this point. There are pre-qualified contractors, and subject to the current availability of a pre-qualified vessel, a charter-party between the vessel's owners and the BEA will be executed.

I suspect that as Airbus and Air France were paying for the search phase, that will continue, with the debris field being mapped. As the wreckage has positively been identified, the ongoing costs incurred by these parties will most likely now be met by the BEA.

The "Alucia" will have long left the search area before the recovery operation commences at the site.
mm43 is offline  
Old 3rd Apr 2011, 23:47
  #2882 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Ultima Thule
Posts: 184
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
447 Found?

BBC News - Wreckage from Air France jet found in Atlantic
proxus is offline  
Old 4th Apr 2011, 00:14
  #2883 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: MA, USA
Posts: 126
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The BEA is to publish first pictures of the wreckage found in the Atlantic on Monday.
"The BEA will on Monday afternoon hold a press conference to show first pictures of the plane parts," a spokeswoman told AFP.
The conference is to be held at 3:00 pm (1300 GMT) at BEA headquarters near Le Bourget airport, north of Paris.
AFP: Parts of Rio-Paris jet wreckage found: official
auv-ee is offline  
Old 4th Apr 2011, 01:42
  #2884 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Chesapeake Bay
Age: 79
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Associations for AF447 Families

These associations have web sites:

1. Associação dos familiares das vitimas do voo 447

2. Association Entraide et Solidarité AF447

3. HIOP AF 447 - Hinterbliebene der Opfer des Flugzeugabsturzes AF 447 e. V.

GB
GreatBear is offline  
Old 4th Apr 2011, 02:40
  #2885 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Potomac Heights
Posts: 470
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Another news report on the finding.
Air France plane crash parts found in Atlantic - Yahoo! News
SeenItAll is offline  
Old 4th Apr 2011, 05:39
  #2886 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Germany
Age: 67
Posts: 1,810
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Cool

Hi,

Seem's good for the next phase ....

The Director of BEA, Jean-Paul Troadec, said the first items found were the two reactors as well as various pieces of wing. The debris field is "relatively limited" and is located on a flat surface at about 4000 meters deep (abyssal plain).
AF447 : l'pave de l'Airbus d'Air France localise au fond de l'Ocan Atlantique - Transport arien ::: AEROCONTACT
jcjeant is offline  
Old 4th Apr 2011, 05:50
  #2887 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Australia - South of where I'd like to be !
Age: 58
Posts: 4,261
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
A question re black boxes to the well informed which is partly relevant to this incident.

With today's technology (as in all the various recording media), why is it that the length of the recordings are not longer than the time currently recorded. I have seen a number of reports (Qantas) where the start of the incident was recorded over.

Also, why does the signal given out by the black boxes only last a short time and seems to be quite "weak". With battery technology available, I would have thought a signal could be send for quite a very long time - like months, not 30 days as well as being a very strong signal.

Thanks
500N is offline  
Old 4th Apr 2011, 06:32
  #2888 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Canada / Switzerland
Posts: 521
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally Posted by Chris Scott
In view of the controversy that has arisen from other accident investigations in recent times (to be deliberately unspecific), I wonder if anyone agrees that the BEA might be well advised to call on one or more other agencies, before starting phase 5, to witness and monitor the recovery of the recorders and any other parts or equipment the condition of which may be crucial to the success of this investigation.
Chris has made a very wise (and politely phrased) recommendation, and I most sincerely hope that his recommendation is heeded.

Michael
V1... Ooops is offline  
Old 4th Apr 2011, 07:35
  #2889 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: W of Greenwich
Age: 78
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Searchers find pieces of crashed plane in Atlantic - World - NZ Herald Mobile

Searchers find pieces of crashed plane in Atlantic - World - NZ Herald Mobile
cc45 is offline  
Old 4th Apr 2011, 07:41
  #2890 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Australia - South of where I'd like to be !
Age: 58
Posts: 4,261
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Thanks for the answers.


What about the cockpit recorder only recording a certain amount
that gets recorded over if the incident is a bit long - ie Qantas.
500N is offline  
Old 4th Apr 2011, 08:10
  #2891 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: France
Posts: 168
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Engine(s)

It is not very clear but bot both engines seems to have been located and observed and (part) of the wing(s) also. Other reports speak of one engine located only. A reporter just said that the aircraft was almost entire. Wreckages would be at 4000 meters depth.
BEA should publish pictures today.
Squawk_ident is offline  
Old 4th Apr 2011, 08:38
  #2892 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: France
Posts: 168
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Bodies

Our "Ministre de l'Écologie, du Développement durable, des Transports et du Logement " , Nathalie Kosciusko-Morizet has announced this morning that bodies have been seen inside some parts of the aircraft. It would tend to confirm that the aircraft would be almost entire as it has been said earlier today.
Squawk_ident is offline  
Old 4th Apr 2011, 09:19
  #2893 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Málaga, Spain
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I'm quite surprised about that - not to sound gruesome, but I would think that after nearly 2 years, the local sea life would have eaten most of the organic material they could get at. It seems to have happened at the Titanic wreck site, where only the shoes were left, but in positions indicating they were still being worn when deposited.

Anyway, I am well chuffed to hear they have finally found the wreckage! Even if they do not find the recorders, or if the recorders don't work, the wreckage itself should tell a lot.
ushumgal is offline  
Old 4th Apr 2011, 09:27
  #2894 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Germany
Age: 67
Posts: 1,810
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Cool

Hi,

Our "Ministre de l'Écologie, du Développement durable, des Transports et du Logement " , Nathalie Kosciusko-Morizet has announced this morning that bodies have been seen inside some parts of the aircraft. It would tend to confirm that the aircraft would be almost entire as it has been said earlier today.
This kind of statement should be taken with suspicion .. especially when it comes from a minister of state.
We know the kind of sensational statements which they are capable
Do not know what they are talking .. but act as if they know more than the experts ....
And if it is discovered that they lied .. they hide behind the fact that they were misinformed
jcjeant is offline  
Old 4th Apr 2011, 09:55
  #2895 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: France
Posts: 168
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Press conference

A press conference will be held at 15h00 French time (1300UTC) at the headquarter of the BEA, Le Bourget.
NKM did not say (of course) what was the exact state of bodies observed.
Ushumgal, may be that some people will be able to analyze and comments about this fact.
A relative of a victim just said whether to extract the bodies ( I don't know exactly how to formulate) would be appropriate or not. It will depend of the families. Either the wrecks would be taken back up to the surface of the ocean or it is decided that it is a mass grave and let it at the bottom. Hard decision to take.
Drones REMUS have been used in this mission.

Edit: NKM said that some wrecks were almost in "one part". I believe she was speaking of the fuselage

Edit2: NKM interview :
Dailymotion - Nathalie Kosciusko-Morizet - une vidéo News & Politics
Only the first minute of the interview is related to the AF447.

Last edited by Squawk_ident; 4th Apr 2011 at 10:17. Reason: Minister declaration
Squawk_ident is offline  
Old 4th Apr 2011, 10:17
  #2896 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: France - mostly
Age: 84
Posts: 1,688
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) published 23/03/2011 a Notice of Proposed Amendment to update the Certification Specifications for large aeroplanes and turbine engines for flights in icing conditions: “Large Aeroplane Certification Specifications in Supercooled Large Drop, Mixed phase, and Ice Crystal Icing Conditions”; which addresses, amongst other aspects, -
Due to the way Pitot or Pitot-static tubes are usually mounted, they are prone to collecting ice crystals. Encountering high concentrations of ice crystals may lead to blocked Pitot or Pitot-static tubes because the energy necessary to melt the ice crystals can exceed the tube heating system capability, or the water formed by the melting process is not completely evacuated and it can re-freeze downstream inside the tube. Pitot or Pitot-static tube blockage can lead to errors in measuring airspeed.
Regards,
HN39
HazelNuts39 is offline  
Old 4th Apr 2011, 10:40
  #2897 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Germany
Age: 67
Posts: 1,810
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Cool

Hi,

Due to the way Pitot or Pitot-static tubes are usually mounted, they are prone to collecting ice crystals. Encountering high concentrations of ice crystals may lead to blocked Pitot or Pitot-static tubes because the energy necessary to melt the ice crystals can exceed the tube heating system capability, or the water formed by the melting process is not completely evacuated and it can re-freeze downstream inside the tube. Pitot or Pitot-static tube blockage can lead to errors in measuring airspeed.
Nothing to say about all this .. apart from the publication date ... 23/03/2011
So it took years (nearly half a century if we take into account the advent of the jet) to account for this phenomenon ...
Edifying has more than one way
Will be not astonished if one day EASA publish a notice about the "discovery" of the wheel ...
jcjeant is offline  
Old 4th Apr 2011, 10:52
  #2898 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: In transit
Age: 70
Posts: 3,052
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Elle a également précisé que des corps identifiables figuraient toujours dans l'habitacle de l'appareil.

"Je ne suis pas technicienne mais tout n'a pas explosé, il y a une partie de l'habitacle et dans cette partie de l'habitacle, il y a des corps", a-t-elle dit, ajoutant qu'il y avait des corps identifiables. Aucune information sur le nombre de corps découverts n'a été dévoilée.
Ouf of curiosity, as the statement about 'bodies' seems bizarre, I looked for the original French, expecting to see 'skeletons' or 'remains' but it says 'corps identifiables'. I am wondering what the explanation for this could be.
Capetonian is offline  
Old 4th Apr 2011, 11:00
  #2899 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: I am where I am and that's all where I am.
Posts: 660
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Captonian, 4000 meters depth is likely the chief reason. Look at how long it took to reduce the Titanic. Two years would not be enough time for the little critters at that depth to make much headway consuming the bodies. There are few sources of energy down there for life. So for the most part it'll be few, far between, and somewhat sluggish, I suspect.

(Did I guess right auv-ee?)

{^_^}
JD-EE is offline  
Old 4th Apr 2011, 11:14
  #2900 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: us
Posts: 694
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
If one looks at mm43's map, and pairs it with the description of abyssal plain, and where Woods Hole was starting the search, looks to be close to the LKP.

SaturnV is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.