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AF 447 Search to resume

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AF 447 Search to resume

Old 17th Feb 2011, 16:53
  #2741 (permalink)  
bearfoil
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Real Time Data production is on board already. Boxes that can survive almost any impact and record crash data up to the last tinkle and clunk are onboard already.

This leaves the deployable. Ejected at what stage? Doesn't it become just a crashing projectile with parameters of its own? Unrelated to the A/C impact??

Quite the salesman, this Hall fella. If Rolls can sell 24 hour chock to block engine "Care", then........ Gild the Lily? ACARS had it down to the nth, but fell short, because its mission is Maintenance Productivity. Change the mission, change the gestalt.

bear
 
Old 17th Feb 2011, 17:55
  #2742 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by bearfoil
Quite the salesman, this Hall fella.
Quite, but what he says makes a lot of sense to me, as do the recommendations of BEA's Flight Data Recovery Working Group. The main problem is that it's a long term objective, applicable only to future airplane types having not even applied for certification.

regards,
HN39
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Old 18th Feb 2011, 04:03
  #2743 (permalink)  
 
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Bearfoil, are the warm meat cargo specimens willing to pay for the cost of FDR and CVR over satellite? It is not going to come free. Usual connect time for voice quality satellite communications is in the $3 (highly compressed) to $15 (analog) per minute range the last I knew. That adds some $9000 for a 10 hour flight or about $40 an ambulatory chunk of cargo. I suppose that modest increase in cost might get absorbed - on every flight. Figure it'd be more like $50 increase by the time the cargo paid for it as the airlines tack on their usual profit margins.

(I presumed the $15 connection as it would have the fidelity to give clearly understandable voice. I know Inmarsat-M quality and would hardly begin to recommend it for a CVR substitute. And I did not consider the added digital connection, probably a tenth or less of the price I estimated.)

{^_^}
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Old 18th Feb 2011, 07:56
  #2744 (permalink)  
 
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BEAR....

"If Rolls can sell 24 hour chock to block engine "Care", then........ Gild the Lily? ACARS had it down to the nth, but fell short, because its mission is Maintenance Productivity. Change the mission, change the gestalt."

YES YES and they think we will not notice! My GOD!
.
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Old 18th Feb 2011, 08:40
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With all this talk of ejectable boxex ect ect would it not be an easier option to make the batteries in the pinger last longer thus helping locate the recorders?

Or even enclose another pinger inside some material that breaks down over time in salt water (say 30 days) and then as the enclosed pinger gets wet it starts broadcasting? You could do this a couple of times with varying degrees of material so that as each pinger dies the next one starts broadcasting.

just a thought.
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Old 18th Feb 2011, 08:58
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warm meat cargo specimens ... ambulatory chunk of cargo.
Have a care. We pay your wages.

Ian.
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Old 18th Feb 2011, 16:18
  #2747 (permalink)  
 
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NOVA - S38 Episode: 14

Has anybody seen it and can comment?
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Old 18th Feb 2011, 16:30
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NOVA

Originally Posted by mbar
NOVA - S38 Episode: 14

Has anybody seen it and can comment?
I'm assuming your reference is to the NOVA program about AF447 that aired (and is airing) this week. It appears to be a re-narration/re-edit of the BBC show from last year. It has the same interviews, footage and graphics as the BBC version. I don't know why they re-packaged it.

NOVA is produced by WGBH, Boston, so I'm a little surprised that they did not include new information (or just do a separate program) about the search, considering that WHOI is in their back yard and is a principal in the search effort.
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Old 18th Feb 2011, 17:57
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You can watch the NOVA episode here: Crash of Flight 447 | NOVA | PBS Video though I am not sure if its region restricted or not. I found it a really interesting episode, hopefully we will one day find out how accurate their conclusions.
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Old 18th Feb 2011, 18:36
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d747;

The recommendations of BEA's Flight Data Recovery Working Group included that ULB battery life be extended to 60 days, and that the acoustic frequency be reduced to around 9kHz (from 37.5kHz) - to allow for greater likelihood of the signal propagating across deep water inversions.

These measures have already been tabled with the ICAO, but like anything requiring international agreement, it to will take time to implement them.
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Old 18th Feb 2011, 20:56
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Originally Posted by mm43
... like anything requiring international agreement, it to will take time to implement them.
It will also take a lot of design work, a lot of certification work, and a lot of money, to see it implemented world-wide....

CJ
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Old 19th Feb 2011, 01:19
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Christiaan J;

I should have said that, thanks.

One of the upsides I sense from doubling the battery capacity, is the surface area of the ULB will increase commensurately, giving better acoustic coupling to the water, which will be slightly offset by the lowering of the frequency.
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Old 19th Feb 2011, 04:10
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Hi, Ian, welcome to the show er place. {^_-}

Doesn't pay MY wages or even my retirement. I designed electronics, notably significant assemblies on the GPS satellites and military and civilian satcom equipment until I started developing software for both show control and broadcast station video playout and effects.

I had my tongue firmly emplanted in my (thinks back) left cheek at the time.

(Way back in the 60s I rather wished I could be a pilot. But my eyesight without glasses pretty well guaranteed no military flying, which then seemed to be the canonical way into a cockpit job. At the time they ignored the fact that contact lenses corrected me better than 20/12 and I had an accommodation range so wide I could focus on 1 mil gold wires on integrated circuit assemblies. So, I never got there. These days I can't for medical reasons. I still have a LONG time fascination with the concept of flying and the men who can do it safely and well.)

{^_-} Joanne
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Old 21st Feb 2011, 04:17
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Bearfoil, are the warm meat cargo specimens willing to pay for the cost of FDR and CVR over satellite?
JD-EE: This warm meat cargo specimen would be willing to do so.

I found it a really interesting episode, hopefully we will one day find out how accurate their conclusions.
Agreed.
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Old 21st Feb 2011, 09:27
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Some good (as far as I can tell) input on the NOVA episode at Flight Level 390, blog of an active Airbus skipper.

There seems to be some censoring in this forum against B_l_o_g_s_p_o_t (comes out ********) so I created a shortlink: Flight Level 390: AF 447... Part 3

The show portrays the pilots as confused and trying to understand the multiple warnings being thrown at them from Fi-Fi's electronic monitoring system as they penetrate the storms. The co-pilot is seen looking through a Quick Reference Checklist. I can (mostly) guarantee you that this was the furthest thing from their minds.
"Fi-Fi" is the blogger's name for the Airbus.
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Old 21st Feb 2011, 15:20
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Most of that blog was lifted almost verbatim from comments early on by poster Will Fraser. Talk about leftovers and plagiarism.

OOOhhhhh.........ICE. Smilin' Ed warned us ages ago... "No Autopilot into severe turbulence..." 447's investigation is not helped, imo, by rehashing (for drama), the imagined circumstances of emotions and coffee on the Mark II eyeball.

I'm waiting for the new Phase Four, I got a feelin'.

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Old 21st Feb 2011, 15:57
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Lightning bolts from all directions! .... Capt Dave has conveniently forgotten that no sign of electrical activity was detected in the ITCZ during the time in question. That's not to say that the violent turbulence he has portrayed didn't happen.

In the middle of the night, there are no surprises when lightning starts to dance through the cloud tops .... unless you are are unlucky enough to trigger the first discharge.
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Old 27th Feb 2011, 16:09
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Search Equipment

Some updated information about the REMUS-6000 vehicles, to be used in the Phase 4 search, is contained in this article:

Robot Submarines Seek A Downed Plane’s Secrets | Gizmodo Australia

It seems to have a mixture of useful information and the fuzzy detail that is typical in journalism.
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Old 27th Feb 2011, 16:49
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It seems to have a mixture of useful information . . . .
Looks like the author did a little research, and actually spoke to those "in the know".
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Old 27th Feb 2011, 17:28
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Search Equipment

Originally Posted by mm43
Looks like the author did a little research, and actually spoke to those "in the know".
Agreed. It's just that details get lost, diminished or exaggerated in the process of writing.
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