Question regarding seating idea...

[Big Bad D]

Similarly for the BAe 146 QC (Quick Change) where normal passenger seat rows, installed on cargo pallets, could be loaded and locked into place on the main cargo deck.

[captjns]

A number of carriers used to convert their day pax jets into night cargo jets. Eastern had pretty good results with their 727-100s with this as they had, I think 9 pallets pre-built passenger seats. UPS tried charter passenger service which went by the wayside as quickly as it started.

Not only do you incur an expense for the conversion, but there would be a loss of useful load, and space for overhead storage, and passenger service units, and additional lavatories, a cold galley area, added zone temperature system, just to name a few items.

[Locarno]

Thanks everyone for the input, it has been extremely helpful.

So yeah, I've determined that venturing into the hold just wont be that viable, excluding maybe for crew rest or additional storage or something like that.

I'd love to be able to tell you exactly what my idea is - I really would, but I'm sure you can all understand why I wont. However, I'm going to go ahead with the planning of it, (excluding the cargo bay part) and hopefully within a short time I'll be back here asking for feedback on the full idea.

Oh and it's okay, I'm not going to be messing about with the cycles of a 747, it a long range aircraft - I'll leave it at that

Thanks again, for all your input.

[Re-Heat]

Now the headroom is a huge problem, that I didn't think of. At the risk of sounding now completely ridiculous - is it possible to move the entire main deck flooring up a tad?

The most successful entrepreneurs do the same business that existing companies do, only better...

I am sceptical that anything along the lines you suggest would be profitable, and am sceptical that it would not have been considered and discarded by others already.

Cargo holds are extremely valuable for cargo - do not underestimate the revenues earned from that space as it is not unused.

To convert a 747 to three decks, you would face uneconomic costs of deck raising (it is not a void), air conditioning movements, building in emergency egress, and finally sourcing an aircraft.

There is a reason that old aircraft are uneconomic to fly further (heavy maintenance check costs become uneconomically high).

Finally, if your idea is that good, it would be unreplicatable. As James Caan has frequently said: if an idea can be copied easily, it is just not that good...

[Locarno]

Good points well made.

However I disagree about the unreplicatable thing.
I mean, I'm struggling to think of anything that is unreplicatable...

Just look at LCCs. It's a brilliant idea, did the guy who invented it well-ish (Can't remember his name at this second) and it's done Ryanair, Ezy and many other LCCs really well.
So I don't neccessarily agree with that, but granted, it would be nice.


As for why it's never been done before? I am struggling with that one. I have presented this to a few training captains, ex-pilots and instructors and they all think it's a great idea that they've never heard of being attempted before.

During my research I have come accross a Boeing Start-up help team, I was finish completing my business plan and forward it to them. I guess at that stage I will find out if it has ever been attempted before!

[MAMMY]

Lower deck lounge

I seem to remeber a german charter company had a lower deck
lounge fitted in Tri Stars , 1970s possible.

[chornedsnorkack]

OK, letīs list the known widebody human uses of cargo hold.

Classical DC-10-10 and Tristar 1 had standard lower hold galleys. Upper galleys and cargo holds through whole underbelly were options but the standard option was underbelly galleys.

Boeing 747 offered hold galley option, too - not sure how popular it was.

Pacific Southwest had their Tristars fitted with a passenger lounge in forward hold - and integral airstairs from that hold. Lockheed actually offered a hold fitted with seats occupiable on takeoff and landing, together with emergency exits, but I think not windows.

There are Boeing 747-s that are flying with 2 integral airstairs, ahead and behind the wing, complete with lobbies and stairs to main deck. VC-25 has integral stairs, in front for use of principals, in the rear for use of press.

Il-86 also has 2 integral airstairs in standard equipment - the hold contains cloakrooms for the winter clothes of the passengers.

So... it is practical and it is done. Can someone comment on the limitations?