Second RMI needle points 180° in wrong direction

[411A]

What....they're still flying....?.......

Absolutely.
Two will be placed in central America shortly, for ad-hoc charters.
Plenty of business, contrary to what some might think, starting January.
In the meantime, Umruh and Haj are calling.
High dollar business, make no mistake.

Small airlines that operate older aircraft have a definite advantage.
They have long retired manufacturer trained guys who positively know how to maintain these older airplanes and are paid accordingly.
Tax free, with a large bonus at the end of the contract.

No room for ASFKAP, as you might expect.

[minimany]

Superb forensic probing ASKFAP. 411A 's loose claims and bluster needs to be exposed.

[411A]

The ADF system is so notoriously inaccurate you'd be getting a warning every time the aircraft turned never mind when subjected to the normal coastal, night and thunderstorm effects etc that cause errors in the system.

Perhaps for the younger guys it is a mystery, not for older folks whom have used one for many years....night/coastal effects notwithstanding.

a) Sadly deluded
b) Grossly misinformed
c) Deliberately trying to mislead anyone reading this thread.

None of the above.

Any further questions?

[Gulfstreamaviator]

Whats an ADF Mummy

How long before both of these guys get tired, and the game is declared a draw.

Seriously as may states are withdrawing ADF, (sorry NDB) facilities, then the ADF receiver will only function as a base ball / football score receiver.

Can the BBC on 199 still be received when the lowest digital receiver suggests 200 is the lowest frequency.

Incidently my first ADF receiver was a coffee grinder.
Worked very well, only got lost one or two times.

The public need to know........glf

[HOCHWALDSPRUDEL]

Checkboard said: You can't set both needles to the same ADF box, there is no need to design in this functionality.

Sure you can set both RMI needles of each RMI (LH and RH) to one ADF, if there is only one ADF installed in the aircraft and both RMI's are connected to that ADF, which is the case in our aircraft!

We still didn't really find the problem....:-) I think I will follow L-Bands advice, which seems to me to be the most convincing answer

"that the follow up resolver is u/s in the 360 quadrant however ok in the 90/270 quadrant.
Tune in the same station and do a 360 and see what happens".

Anyway thank you all...maybe someone has had the same problem and really knows about the answer.

Cheers....

[411A]

Sure you can set both RMI needles of each RMI (LH and RH) to one ADF, if there is only one ADF installed in the aircraft and both RMI's are connected to that ADF, which is the case in our aircraft!

The slight problem some folks have, HOCHWALDSPRUDEL, is that...because they have never seen a particular avionics arrangement, they therefore apparently make up their minds that it could not possibly exist.

I would call this....closed minds.
And yes, there must be a resolver in any ADF system, as otherwise manual direction finding would need to be used...and yes, I've done that, too....long ago.

Going further, some folks think that an ADF cannot be used for reasonably accurate navigation.
They would be quite wrong, of course...perhaps because they have not been taught properly about NDB navigation in the first place.

[One Outsider]

Forget it ASFKAP.

The man is a foghorn. He knows it, you know, I know it, everybody knows it.

[411A]

how do you know which of the two ADF signals which may be displayed in that indicator is faulty, what specifically does your ops manual say about this situation...?

There are three flags in each RMI...two signal condition flags, and one PWR flag.
If the RMI fails, the PWR OFF flag appears.
If the VOR receiver should fail or the VOR not be operable on the ground, the respective fail flag will appear, if VOR is selected.
If reversed sensing (IE, 180 degree ambiguity) is sensed, the respective fail flag will appear, if ADF is selected.
If the ADF transmitter on the ground should fail, a fail flag will not appear in the RMI, so audio monitoring is needed. In addition, on some installations, the ADF needles will be driven to the nine o'clock position.
If the ADF receiver fails, the respective fail flag will appear if ADF is selected.

I know you "only fly 'em" but is it possible you could ask one of your "highly experienced, long retired, manufacturer trained" hot shots to explain it to you and then you can come back here and tell us all about it...?

If I remember, will do.
Keep in mind these folks didn't design the system, they only fix it when necessary.

[411A]

You quite clearly stated the normal 'OFF' flag appears when a "reversed sensing condition" is detected, now you're saying its the respective (ADF) fail flag....?

Yes, the normal flag when the respective ADF receiver either fails, or the 180 degree ambiguity is sensed.
The legend on this flag is...OFF.

There are, however, different variations, depending on original customer option...in fact, those aircraft ordered by TAP had a separate RMI for the ADF indications...IE: two RMI's on each pilots instrument panel.

Many of the aircraft delivered originally to BA had a completely different ADF display...IE: the respective ADF pointers were placed on the HSI...which caused this instrument to look like, as one pilot described it...a pin ball machine.

And, yes, I've flown this varient as well, complete with its 'ground pointer' on the ADI.

[411A]

Quite frankly, ASFKAP, I really have no idea what you are on about.

To repeat.
Two ADF receivers installed on the airplane.
Each receiver drives its respective pointer on both pilots and copilots RMI.
Number one receiver drives number one pointer, number two receiver drives number two pointer on each respective RMI instrument.
With me so far?
IF the pilots (or copilots) RMI power fails, the sharks fin OFF flag appears.
IF the number one ADF receiver fails, each RMI instrument will show an ADF OFF flag to appear, on both RMI's
Conversely, IF number two ADF receiver fails, the respective ADF pointer will show an OFF flag in both RMI instruments.
Following now?
In addition, on those aircraft so modified, IF number one or number two pointers shows a 180 degree ambiguity, that respective pointer is flagged on both RMI indicators.
That flag has a legend that says OFF...on both RMI instruments.
The remaining ADF receiver that is properly functioning will still display correctly, provided the ADF receiver is tuned correctly, and ADF is selected on the respective RMI.

It is entirely possible that BA had their ADF indicators (as previously described) on the HSI wired entirely differently, and therefore the display was different...ala, pin ball machine...as indicated previously.

IF you would like to transport your good self down to JED during the Haj, I will be pleased to demonstrate.
You can even ride with us to Ouagadougou or BoBo Dioulasso to see how it is all done, and quiz our avionics guys about the system, to your hearts content
Just remember to ontain the necessary visas and don't forget your (retired) crew ID.

Deal...or no deal?