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Tristar L-1011 FMS & Autopilot

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Tristar L-1011 FMS & Autopilot

Old 20th May 2009, 23:54
  #81 (permalink)  
 
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Sorry but there was lead wool in aft overhead of the early aircraft. I saw them putting it in at Palmdale in 1972 and 1973. Came out later with improvements.
You can be "sorry" all you want, but I worked on the production line from 1970 (s/n 1001) to 1977 (s/n 1145) when I became a training instructor, in 1982 I went in to product support and worked there until I retired. All that time the insulation batts were made of spun fiberglass with tedlar covering, no lead wool.

Also, air cycles sounded like muted police sirens in early aircraft. The finally put in tuned mounts for them.
They sounded like unmuted police sirens on the late aircraft. But, you expect that from something spinning 28,000 RPM.
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Old 20th May 2009, 23:58
  #82 (permalink)  
 
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Trident "Look-Alike"

Noted b377's comment about the B727 being a Trident "look-alike". Yes they do look similar but that is about where any comparison ends. By the way the B727 went into service before the Trident and, as we all know, was a "best seller" for many years for Boeing. Back to the thread though, the L1011 was a magnificent aircraft to crew, the RB211-22B powered variants was a bit "ropey" at high FL's, but still a very efficient and proficient aircraft in which the crew did not suffer the "dog box" flight deck conditions encountered in many other types.
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Old 21st May 2009, 04:04
  #83 (permalink)  
 
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ASFKAP,
Very valid point. I do not know why nobody picked up on the flying tailplane. DLC probably does not make sense in the day and age of Flap 3 landings on Airbus, although the A318 has partial spoiler deployment for steep approaches.
There are other features though which found their way into other successful programs. FMS is one of them and was introduced on the L1011-200 with Saudia I think and many -500 customers used them. It paved the way for what most of us Airbus drivers take for granted like optimum climb, cruise, descent speeds, optimum cruise flight levels and much more.
Also the Airbus soft cruise looks very similar to that of the -500.
The -500 was the first aircraft in which you could hold a optimum cruise Mach number with the use of FMS and Autothrottle. Small Mach variations are corrected by pitch commands letting the cruise altitude vary by +- 50 ft, whereas larger variations are corrected by smooth throttle adjustments. Looks very similar to our A320 ALTCRZ doesn't it.
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Old 21st May 2009, 11:07
  #84 (permalink)  
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Lead wool ?

I did not know such a material had a place in aviation. Are we talking real Plumbum wool? I note comment that fiber glass was used in the TriStar but wonder which jets actually used Pb for acoustic damping and how much it accounted for total weight.


As i always like to know the reason why things are called what they are
any advances on why it was christened a Frisbee fairing ?
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Old 21st May 2009, 11:19
  #85 (permalink)  
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That would undoubtedly be because the specific airline did not know how to avoid the 'clunks'.
Like lining the gear well with lead wool?

Interesting that operators have freedom to do something about such (airline specific) ergonomic features - I pressume it would require manufacturer/FAA approval?
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Old 21st May 2009, 11:37
  #86 (permalink)  
 
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Interesting that operators have freedom to do something about such (airline specific) ergonomic features - I pressume it would require manufacturer/FAA approval?
No, no changes to the airplane at all...only specific operating procedures.

The -500 was the first aircraft in which you could hold a optimum cruise Mach number with the use of FMS and Autothrottle.
Negative.
All SV and DL long body aircraft had Hamilton Sundstrand FMS units installed (dual installation) which accomplished the specific function mentioned.

And yes, I've flown these specific models as well.
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Old 21st May 2009, 11:44
  #87 (permalink)  
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Smile

... in which the crew did not suffer the "dog box" flight deck conditions encountered in many other types.
But not as spacious as the B-377 green house. Not sure if any airline had Stratocruiser served routes to Austraila for you to remember the GH.
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Old 21st May 2009, 11:54
  #88 (permalink)  
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No, no changes to the airplane at all...only specific operating procedures

Understood, I'll take issue with those heavy handed BA pilots next time.

Last edited by b377; 21st May 2009 at 13:22.
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Old 21st May 2009, 12:40
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ASFKAP
Here is one pilot who did not enjoy the L1011 much. I felt it was too fusy and complicated and kept going wrong! But I had been spoilt by 5 happy trouble free years
flying a proper 3 holer from Long Beech!
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Old 21st May 2009, 13:15
  #90 (permalink)  
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Lockheed, simply designed and built to a higher standard....with proper RollsRoyce engines
Those proper RR engines nearly bankrupped both companies and the early 211 engines have been knocked apreciably in this thread. Perhaps Lheed would have fared better with GE or PW.
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Old 21st May 2009, 14:09
  #91 (permalink)  
 
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ASFKAP
LOL, I will take my chances! Complicated? yes. Understood it? most of it. The DLC in my view was a joke, lockheed only put it on because it was unstable, strange the idea never really took off.
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Old 21st May 2009, 14:28
  #92 (permalink)  
 
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Cannot wait for Arizona to wake up! Isn't that the place where all the old boneyards are, mainly full of 1011's?
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Old 21st May 2009, 14:40
  #93 (permalink)  
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He might (understandably) start spelling RR with small r's if you two keep on.
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Old 21st May 2009, 15:11
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The DLC in my view was a joke, lockheed only put it on because it was unstable
Do a little research on longitudinal scatter and get back to us.
I was at a HUGS symposium earlier this week where it was a big selling point for HUGS. DLC was so good that airports got upset.
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Old 21st May 2009, 15:20
  #95 (permalink)  
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DLC was so good that airports got upset.
Simple they should dither the ILS GS
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Old 21st May 2009, 15:38
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I was in first maintenance training class in fall of 1971, ran Tech Services for EAL for northern region from JFK during the B747 and L-1011 eras, became director of aircraft overhaul and years later was the Chairman of one of the last L011 Maintenance and Engineering conferences held by Lockheed in Greenville while at Tradewinds.
Not going to get into a flaming match over lead wool in the upper aft cabin - it was there on earliest EAL aircraft. Yes, the remainder of the insulation was the pink stuff in bags.
Re the air-cycle, they originally bolted them to the cabin floor beams. Not the best idea ever and when I was riding the proving runs for the first delivery to EAL it was really bad. Rising and falling sirens and right under first class too.
The L-1011 did suffer from Lockheeds predilection for over-sophistication just like the Electra and Constellations. I started at Lockheed New York back in 1954 before going to Eastern in 1964 so know them well. The shutdown of the L-1011 effort during the Rolls bankruptcy did mess things up and they lost continuity. Delta mastered the L-1011 better than EAL but only with a lot of dedicated effort. And there is no doubt that that the later aircraft were vast improvements over the initial efforts.
As stated, flying wise, Lockheed has always excelled according to the flight crews I worked with. Sort of a love-hate relationship with the L-1011.
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Old 21st May 2009, 15:54
  #97 (permalink)  
 
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The DLC in my view was a joke, lockheed only put it on because it was unstable
Do a little research on longitudinal scatter and get back to us.
I was at a HUGS symposium earlier this week where it was a big selling point for HUGS. DLC was so good that airports got upset.
FE Hoppy is correct, and those that didn't understand DLC, didn't appreciate it operation.
In fact, at one airline, a few of the Captains would regularly disable the DLC/Auto Spoiler system, so a memo from the L10 Fleet Manager was sent out to these few, and it said in part....'If you want to attempt to land the airplane like a Boeing product, you can do so at another company.'
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Old 21st May 2009, 15:57
  #98 (permalink)  
 
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My point entirely, lockheed had to install it to make it land safely, if it was so good why didn't Boeing copy it?
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Old 21st May 2009, 16:00
  #99 (permalink)  
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Beg tell please the reason other manufactures didn't adopt DLC was it a Lockheed patent protected system?
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Old 21st May 2009, 16:01
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I am not knocking DLC for what it did, it made for a superbly stable approach, my point is that it should not be necessary to resort to such systems. More weight, more cost, more maintenance and more to go wrong
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