Airbus crash/training flight

[Dani]

Paint job? Reminds me of the famous pitot tubes forgotten to remove the tape from...

But I agree it's way too early to know the reason or the way it happened.

Dani

[Mercenary Pilot]

Maintenance sorties are by their very nature, hazardous non-standard operations. My sincerest condolences to the families involved and to Air New Zealand staff on this tragic (and infamous) day.

I hope the cause is quickly established, procedures modified and lessons learnt to make this type of operation safer for all of us whom partake in them.

Due to the many complex technical procedures involved with most maintenance/check flights, especially with an aircraft as advanced as the A320, I would say speculation is absolutely pointless.

[DaveReidUK]

> Maintenance sorties are by their very nature, hazardous non-standard operations.

Do explain.

[Flare-Idle]

Having performed myself dozens of airliner technical acceptance flights after scheduled heavy maintenance checks and unscheduled maintenance checks after incidents on the line, my sincerest condolences to the crew members, the base maintenance team and their relatives.
Airlines normally assign the technical pilot of the corresponding fleet to plan, execute and analyze technical acceptance flights together with the involved base maintenance team. Normally, the aircraft manufacturer supplies a dedicated acceptance flight program which is basically a streamlined flight program of the initial certification process. Yet, this is NOT a testflight program which certified test pilots of the aircraft manufacturer perform.
Technical acceptance flights in airlines are performed by the technical pilot, specially trained “normal” airline pilots and one acceptance flight engineer on the jump seat in the cockpit. It is normally the flight engineer who leads the program and who is responsible for the acceptance flight protocol. Close cooperation and information flow between the technical pilot and the base maintenance team during the maintenance visit of the aircraft and during the extensive pre-flight briefing is of utmost importance for a safe and successful acceptance flight.
The workload during those flights is extremely high because you do things, you should not do on line.

I am eager to learn what went wrong on this tragic flight.

[captplaystation]

My experience of picking aircraft up post maintenance (from several " reputable" establishments) would tend to support Mercenary Pilots statement.
Absolutely amazing what crocks of sh@t I have been presented with as "fit for service" . . . . . Er excuse me , why is this light illuminated / this guarded switch unguarded / why is the Autopilot disconnecting and the Aircraft rolling violently left etc etc. I hated my previous company's policy that any line pilot was qualified to accept an aircraft post maintenance , certainly no way I would have volunteered for these particular "experiences" thanks.

[ExSp33db1rd]

Catplaystaion - #48 I agree, the most dangerous aircraft to fly is one that has just come out of maintenance, or a routine check, and that's no criticism of the integrity of engineers, nobody deliberately leaves bolts untightened etc. but it happens. If it 'ain't broke - don't fix it, up to a point.

[NotPilotAtALL]

Hello,

From a post on other forum (french .. I let you the work for eventual translation)
It's a recount of what he ear on radio....... nothing official of course .. to take with a big pinch of salt.


Re: /!\ Air New Zealand A320 crashes off France during training

de Philippe/AIB1017 le 27/11/2008
Bonsoir,
je vous mets en copie le post que j'ai mis sur un autre forum:


"Bonsoir,

J'ai écouté les fréquences Approche et Tour de Perpignan tout l'après midi et je peux vous assurer que vivre un crash en direct live, en habitant à quelques kilometres du lieu, ça fait froid dans le dos.
L'appareil en question a contacté l'approche vers 16h45. il etait direct PPG en descente FL120. Il a été pris en guidage radar car le traffic précédent, un Ryanair, etait sur la STAR. Cap au 090, je me souviens plus du niveau. Puis le précedent etant établit, le controleur ( notre charmante controleuse Perpignanaise), donne un direct LANET, clear LANET ILS 33, descend 4000fts qnh 1016. Le pilote a collationé et c'est la dernière fois qu'on a entendu le pilote. Pas un seul mayday, rien... Puis un pilote d'un PA28 à crié "un appareil crashé, un appareil crashé". La tout s'est accéléré: "Ulysse 34, confirmez un appareil carshé ? position ? " "on est au large de Canet en Roussillon sur le 110 PPG, 10.5nm, Ulysse 34, on commence à tourner sur le lieu du crash, 300 pieds mer". Très rapidement l'hélico de la sécurité civile à decollé de Perpignan "Dragon66, autorisé décollage immédiat de la position,vent calme, virage a gauche".
Une fois l'hélico sur la position, il à annoncé "aucun visuel sur l'appareil, grande tache blanche dans l'eau, on distingue des débris sur plus d'un kilomètre".
je vous passe tous les autres détails... Les contrôleurs on gardé leur calme, ont fait posé tous les VFR en évolution dans la zone. EAS qui devait accueillir le 320 a annoncé 7 personnes à bord. A l'heure ou j'écris ce message, j'écoute les différents appareils qui sont sur le lieu du crash, et à priori ils ne trouvent personne. J'espère qu'il y aura des survuivants, mais vu le froid et la température de l'eau....
Un Dauphin est attendu dans les minutes qui viennent, avec un equipement spécialisé. Une vedette de la SNSM est aussi sur place.
Voila les infos sur ce drame..."

En espérant qu'on rapidement des explications ! J'ai un collègue qui à vu l'avion "tomber" dans la mer. Il a vraiment piqué alors qu'il venait d'amorcer son arc dme pour aller s'établir. Vraiment bizarre...

Philippe

Philippe/AIB1017


Source:
www.avionic-online.com • Afficher le sujet - /!\ Air New Zealand A320 crashes off France during training

Cheers.

[C172 Hawk XP]

I agree, the most dangerous aircraft to fly is one that has just come out of maintenance, or a routine check

It happens throughout aviation, big and small. One of my partners was taxiing our C172 out prior to flying when it became apparent one of the wheels was not properly tightened. It had just come out from a 100 hour service ! Further investigation showed that the engineer who was putting the wheels back had got called away to the phone, then forgot where he was up to.

Also very sad to note that a crash of today's magnitude got NOT A SINGLE MENTION on the BBC's main ten o'clock news. Because so much of the programme was devoted to the tragic events in India.

[BGQ]

Aircraft still XL and had not been handed back to Air NZ

LATEST: The search for survivors of a crashed Air New Zealand Airbus A320 – carrying five New Zealanders and two Germans – has been called off for the night.


The plane crashed off Perpignan, in southeast France, about 4.45am (NZ time) today. It had been undergoing maintenance checks at Perpignan airport before a test flight ahead of a return to New Zealand.

The New Zealanders on the flight included two airline engineers from Christchurch, an engineer from Auckland and a pilot from Auckland, all working for Air New Zealand. A New Zealand Civil Aviation Authority expert was also onboard. All are presumed dead.

The Airbus was being flown by two XL Airways pilots aircraft. The Air NZ-owned plane had been leased by XL for the past two years and was being tested ahead of its return this week.

Jean Dunyach, head of Civil Security at the Prefecture in Perpignan, told Stuff.co.nz that the search had been called off for the night, in heavy seas, and would resume at 5am local time. The area is 12 hours behind New Zealand.

“Unfortunately, the conditions are very difficult, it is raining, there are 30kms of wind with big waves and operations have been complicated further because it is now dark,” he said in a telephone interview.

He did not believe there were any survivors and confirmed that bodies of two of the seven crew had been recovered, although not yet identified. They had been transferred to the morgue at Perpignan Hospital, where a member of the French Transport Ministry, Dominique Bussereau was expected tomorrow.

“It is a difficult night for the rescuers… the remaining bodies may well be in pieces.”

Mr Dunyach said the maximum had been done this evening to locate the missing crew members, with five rescue boats, 17 specialised divers, a helicopter and a search aeroplane scouring the scene. Thirty divers were expected tomorrow when he hoped the black box would be retrieved from the wrecked aircraft, currently 40m underwater.

He said the New Zealand and German embassies had been told of the accident and families were being informed. He did not believe there were any survivors.

"It is too early to speculate about the reasons for the crash, only the black box can tell us."

There was a strong feeling of solidarity amongst the local fishermen from the Le Cannet en Roussillon area, as they had been asked to help in the rescue effort.

Better weather was forecast for Friday (French time), and although some were quite shocked by what had happened they were only too happy to lend assistance, he said.

Both the New Zealand and German Embassy have been notified about the accident and the Prefecture was keeping staff closely informed.

Earlier, a French journalist had said searchers battled the dark and strong wind and rain to find survivors.

However, he said there was no hope of survivors.

"It's not really clear on what happened … the plane was flying for one hour and a half and suddenly fell down to the sea," he told Radio New Zealand.

"There was no explosion, it was flying (at) 300m and suddenly fell down into the sea, but no explosion."

There were many witnesses, and emergency services were quickly at the scene.

The aircraft was believed to be 45m deep in the sea and divers would try and recover the black box tomorrow.

Some wreckage was floating on the surface, but the pieces were "very difficult to find because of the big waves and the dark".

A surveillance plane, two rescue helicopters and five ships scoured the seas around the crash site about 3km from the shore. About 20 specialist frogmen also took part in the operation.

SOMBRE MOOD

The mood at Air New Zealand and CAA headquarters in Wellington was sombre this morning, as staff waited for news from France.

The aircraft was owned by Air New Zealand and had been on lease to XL Airways for the past two years. It was four years old and when delivered and had flown for Freedom Air for about a year before being leased.

Air New Zealand chief executive Rob Fyfe said it was being flown to Frankfurt, where it was due to be handed back for a ferry flight back to New Zealand this week.

"Naturally, this is an extremely difficult time for us all and the full resources of the airline are being put into investigating what may have happened and providing support to our people and their families," he said.

Fyfe said he had not given up hope of finding survivors. He had briefed Prime Minister John Key.

The pilot was a very experienced captain, "which is typically what we want when we are going through one of these acceptance processes. We have our most experienced people ensuring the aircraft is up to Air New Zealand standards".

Several staff were waiting in Frankfurt, Germany, to take over the aircraft on its flight back to New Zealand.

The crash comes 29 years to the day that an Air New Zealand DC10 crashed into Mt Erebus, killing all 257 passengers and crew.

Mr Fyfe said today was already very poignant for Air New Zealand because of the Erebus tragedy and the anniversary added a new dimension to the tragedy.

PRIME MINISTER

A spokesman for Prime Minister John Key said he would hold a press conference early this afternoon in Wellington to talk about the crash.

"This is obviously a tragic situation for the families of the people killed and also for the airline. We are in touch with Air New Zealand and the Civil Aviation Authority."

Transport Minister Steven Joyce said the Government was getting regular updates, and seeking briefings from officials.

“The Government is getting briefings from Air New Zealand and the Civil Aviation Authority.

“Obviously the New Zealand Government has grave concerns and is being updated on developments.”

Mr Joyce said it is premature to comment on what shape any investigation might take, although he fully expected New Zealand agencies to play a part.

“But our thoughts right now are with the families, friends, and colleagues of those who were on board.”

AVIATION AUTHORITIES

CAA spokesman Bill Sommer said the authority was still waiting on confirmation there had been no survivors, and the names of the people involved.

"Till that happens we won't be making any comment," he said.

The CAA investigator was in France to recertify the plane for its return to New Zealand. The certification engineer was on the trip as part of the process by which aircraft and handed over from the European operator.

Mr Sommer sad he did not know when they would hear, but he was hoping it would be as soon as possible.

The CAA was not involved in investigating the crash, which he expected was being led by French authorities with German assistance.

It was possible New Zealand's Transport Accident Investigation Commission might be involved. The Commission was not available for comment.

Aviation and Marine Engineers Association national secretary George Ryde said all engineers on temporary assignment in France were association members.

The mood among its members was "sombre", he said.

"People want information to help them deal with it," Mr Ryde said.

So far there were no clues as to what went wrong with the flight, he said.

The association would be offering support "in any way we can" to the family, friends and colleagues of those who perished in the crash, he said.

Mr Ryde said there were about eight Air New Zealand engineers on temporary assignment in France.

AIRBUS

The jet had been undergoing servicing at EAS Industries in Perpignan and flying circuits for 90 minutes before it crashed, an emergency services spokesman said.

Six French aviation accident investigators and two from Germany were being sent to help an inquiry with experts from the French civil aviation authority (DGAC) and Airbus.

Airbus said it delivered the jet in July 2005 and it had carried out 2800 flights with about 7000 hours of use since then. The constructor gave no details of the accident.

There are about 3700 A320 jets in service with almost 3000 more to be delivered. Air New Zealand own two Airbus aircraft, and lease 10.

Their average age is four years, and they seat about 150 passengers

[SIDSTAR]

Reported as some sort of test flight after a C check. To my knowledge, the A320 doesn't normally require a test flight after a C check (unless some elements of the flight controls have been worked on/replaced).

Most items for a test flight are done with the on-board BITE equipment on the ground pre-flight, thus removing the need for switching off major control power during flight. Having done dozens of post-maintennce test flights on non-fly-by-wire a/c I totally agee that things can be discovered that one wouldn't want a line pilot to have to deal with. I've had an engine not spooling up at stall recovery (15000 ft) and a 737 that would turn only one way in Manual Reversion (hydraulic power off) but was fine with the hydraulics on. None of these items are normally required on an A320 test flight.

If it was doing circuits it sounds more like a training flight.

[J.O.]

What a shame for all involved at XL Germany, Air NZ and the NZ CAA.

The "test" flight would not be connected to the C-check. More likely, they were flying an acceptance flight profile which is quite common when a used aircraft changes owners / lessors.

[spagiola]

Here's a quick translation of the French language post from a few posts up.

"Good evening,
I was listening on the Perpignan approach and tower frequencies all afternoon, and can assure you that living a crash "live", and living a few km from the location, gives me cold shivers.
The aircraft in question contacted approach about 1645. He was direct PPG descending through FL120. He was taken under radar control because the preceding traffic, a Ryanair, was on the STAR [approach, I presume]. Heading 90, I don't recall the level. Once the preceding traffic was established, the controller (our charming Perpignanaise controller) gave it a direct LANET, cleat LANET ILS 33, descend 4000 feet, qnh 1016. The pilot acknowledged and that was the last time he was heard from. No mayday, nothing. Then the pilot of a PA28 yelled "an aircraft crashed, an aircraft crashed" and everything went very fast. "Ulysse 34, confirm an aircraft crashed? Position?" "We are off Canet en Roussillon on 110 PPG, 10.5nm, Ulysse 34, we are beginning to orbit the crash site, 300 feet above sea level." Very quickly the Securité Civile helicopter took off from Perpignan. "Dragon66, authorized immediate takeoff from position, wind calm, left turn." As soon as the helicopter was on site, he announced "no visual on the aircraft, large white spot on the water, we can see debris over more than one km."
I will spare you the other details. The controllers kept their calm, made all the VFR traffic in the area land. EAS, who was to have met the A320, announced there were 7 people on board. As I write this, I am listening to the various aircraft at the crash site, and so far they are not finding anybody. I hope there will be survivors, but given the cold and the water temperature...
A Dauphin with specialized equipment is awaited in the next few minutes. An SNSM launch is also there.
I hope we'll quickly have explanations. I have a colleague who saw the aircraft 'fall' in the sea. It really dove as it had just begun its DME arc to establish. Really strange....

Philippe"

[BGQ]

Air NZ Staff Named Publicly

LATEST: Three of the five New Zealand victims from this morning's Airbus crash off the coast of France have been named.


They are: Captain Brian Horrell, 52, of Auckland; Murray White, 37, engineer, of Auckland; Michael Gyles, 49, engineer, of Christchurch.

The name of a fourth Air New Zealand observer will be released later today once family have been notified. A fifth New Zealander - a Wellington based CAA expert - was also on the flight but is still to be identified.

Seven people - including two German pilots - were onboard the Air New Zealand Airbus A320 when it crashed into the Mediterranean, just off Perpignan in southeast France, about 4.45am (NZ time) today. It had been on a test flight - involving several maneuvers - ahead of a return to New Zealand.

French daily Le Monde reported three bodies had been found. All seven crew were presumed dead.

A choked up Air New Zealand Chief Executive Officer Rob Fyfe told a press conference this afternoon that he had spoken to the partners of each of the missing men.

"This is an unbelievably difficult time for the families of those who are missing. I conveyed to them my deepest sympathies and those of all Air New Zealanders as we await further information on their loved ones.

"I was also able to re-assure them that Air New Zealand is receiving the full support of the New Zealand Government and the Search and Rescue authorities in France and we are confident that everything is being done to locate those still missing."

Fyfe described today as the toughest day in his career. He will travel to France later today with the family of at least one of the Kiwi victims. Other families are considering their options.

Air New Zealand deputy chief executive Norm Thompson left for France about midday and Fyfe expected to follow later today. England-based Air New Zealand management were also en route.

Fyfe said Prime Minister John Key had offered his full support. The level of cooperation with French authorities was very good, with most communication now happening through Government channels.

CRASH WITNESS

The plane was seen flying low over the French Mediterranean shortly before the crash. It had taken off from Perpignan Airport and had reportedly carried out a touch-and-go landing before heading for Frankfurt, Germany, when it plunged into the sea.

Lydie Benedicte, who works on the information desk at Perpignan Airport, told ABC radio that the plane had dipped down into the sea very quickly.

"The aircraft crashed direct,'' she told the station. "It's not far from the airport. That's why the aircraft was not very high in the sky … that's why a lot of people saw the crash near the coast of Cannes.''

SEARCH

Jean Dunyach, head of Civil Security at the Prefecture in Perpignan, told Stuff.co.nz that the search for survivors would resume at 5am local time (5pm today, NZ time) when specialist divers would be sent in.

“Unfortunately, the conditions are very difficult, it is raining, there are 30kms of wind with big waves and operations have been complicated further because it is now dark,” he said in a telephone interview.

The water temperature in the area was believed to be about 13C.

He did not believe there were any survivors. The bodies already recovered had been transferred to the morgue at Perpignan Hospital, where a member of the French Transport Ministry, Dominique Bussereau, was expected tomorrow.

“It is a difficult night for the rescuers … the remaining bodies may well be in pieces.”

Mr Dunyach said the maximum had been done to locate the missing crew members, with five rescue boats, 17 specialised divers, a helicopter and a search aeroplane scouring the scene. Thirty divers were expected tomorrow when he hoped the black box would be retrieved from the wrecked aircraft, currently 40m underwater.

He said the New Zealand and German embassies had been told of the accident and families were being informed.

"It is too early to speculate about the reasons for the crash, only the black box can tell us."

There was a strong feeling of solidarity amongst the local fishermen from the Le Cannet en Roussillon area, as they had been asked to help in the rescue effort.

Better weather was forecast for Friday (French time), and although some were quite shocked by what had happened they were only too happy to lend assistance, he said.

Earlier, a French journalist had said searchers battled the dark and strong wind and rain to find survivors.

"It's not really clear on what happened … the plane was flying for one hour and a half and suddenly fell down to the sea," he told Radio New Zealand.

"There was no explosion, it was flying (at) 300m and suddenly fell down into the sea, but no explosion."

There were many witnesses, and emergency services were quickly at the scene.

Some wreckage was floating on the surface, but the pieces were "very difficult to find because of the big waves and the dark".

SOMBRE MOOD

The mood at Air New Zealand and CAA headquarters in Wellington was sombre today, as staff waited for news from France.

The aircraft was owned by Air New Zealand and had been on lease to German charter company XL Airways for the past two years. It was four years old when delivered and had flown for Freedom Air for about a year before being leased.

Fyfe said it was being flown to Frankfurt, where it was due to be handed back for a ferry flight to New Zealand this week.

"Naturally, this is an extremely difficult time for us all and the full resources of the airline are being put into investigating what may have happened and providing support to our people and their families," he said.

"I certainly haven't given up hope … I'm hopeful there still may be survivors." However, he acknowledge searchers' hope was fading.

“Here at Air New Zealand it's a really tight-knit team and people are feeling ... a deep concern at the moment.

"It's a very, very difficult time when there's any possibility that any of our colleagues have been hurt ... or potentially killed."

Fyfe said Air New Zealand was drawing on the experiences of other airlines that had been in similar situations before.

The Air New Zealand pilot on the flight was a very experienced captain, "which is typically what we want when we are going through one of these acceptance processes. We have our most experienced people ensuring the aircraft is up to Air New Zealand standards".

Several staff were waiting in Frankfurt, Germany, to take over the aircraft on its flight back to New Zealand.

The crash comes 29 years to the day that an Air New Zealand DC10 crashed into Mt Erebus, killing all 257 passengers and crew.

Mr Fyfe said that today was already very poignant for Air New Zealand because of the Erebus tragedy, and the anniversary added a new dimension to the tragedy.

AVIATION AUTHORITIES

CAA spokesman Bill Sommer said the authority was still waiting on confirmation there had been no survivors, and the names of the people involved.

"Till that happens we won't be making any comment," he said.

The CAA investigator, believed to have been from Wellington, was in France to recertify the plane for its return to New Zealand. The certification engineer was on the trip as part of the process by which aircraft was handed over from the European operator.

The CAA was not involved in investigating the crash, which he expected was being led by French authorities with German assistance.

However, the deputy chief investigator of the Transport Air Investigation Commission, Ken Mathews, would head to the crash site to support the French investigation. Two officials from the NZ Embassy in Paris are also en route.

Aviation and Marine Engineers Association national secretary George Ryde said all engineers on temporary assignment in France were association members.

The mood among its members was "sombre", he said.

"People want information to help them deal with it," Mr Ryde said.

So far there were no clues as to what went wrong with the flight, he said.

The association would be offering support "in any way we can" to the family, friends and colleagues of those who perished in the crash, he said.

Mr Ryde said there were about eight Air New Zealand engineers on temporary assignment in France.

AIRBUS

The jet had been undergoing servicing at EAS Industries in Perpignan and flying circuits for 90 minutes before it crashed, an emergency services spokesman said.

Six French aviation accident investigators and two from Germany were being sent to help an inquiry with experts from the French civil aviation authority (DGAC) and Airbus.

Airbus said it delivered the jet in July 2005 and it had carried out 2800 flights with about 7000 hours of use since then. The constructor gave no details of the accident.

There are about 3700 A320 jets in service with almost 3000 more to be delivered. Air New Zealand own two Airbus aircraft, and lease 10.

Their average age is four years, and they seat about 150 passengers.

- with agencies

[Tahitimax]

Message received from Airbus :

FROM : AIRBUS FLIGHT SAFETY DEPARTMENT TOULOUSE



SUBJECT: XL AIRWAYS Germany GmbH accident in Perpignan, France

OUR REF.: D-AXLA AIT 1 dated November 27th 2008


ACCIDENT INFORMATION TELEX - ACCIDENT INFORMATION TELEX


AIRBUS regrets to confirm that an A320-232 aircraft operated by XL
AIRWAYS Germany was involved in an accident during a check flight at
Perpignan, France, at about 4:00 pm UTC on 27 November 2008.

The aircraft crashed into the Mediterranean sea about 3nm East of
Perpignan coast.

The aircraft involved in the accident, registration number D-AXLA,
bearing serial number MSN 2500 was delivered to Air New Zealand on July
2005, and was currently operated by XL AIRWAYS Germany. It had logged
around 7000 flight hours and 2800 flight cycles since it entered into
service. It was powered by IAE V2527-A5 engines.

According to available information, there were 7 persons on-board.

At this point, there is no report of any survivor.

In line with ICAO Annex 13 International convention, Airbus will
provide technical assistance to the French BEA (Bureau d'Enquêtes et
d'Analyses). A go-team of Airbus investigators is being dispatched to
Perpignan to assist the BEA.

Further update will be provided as soon as relevant information becomes
available.

Airbus expresses its sympathy to the families and relatives affected by
this event.

Yannick Malinge
Vice-president Flight Safety
Airbus

[Cypher]

I'd like to re-iterate 6080ft's post. Please do not talk to the media.

Air New Zealand's press releases are more than adequate.

I''m fairly sure that the release of any radio transmission recorded or transcripted to the public of an incident before the investigation is complete is against aviation law.

[Panop]

Media

Please don't anyone talk to the media they only mess up the story, sensationalise it and get it wrong!

Lets not speculate about the accident out of respect to the crew and their families.

Sadly true but not giving the media accurate information just leads to even wilder and more distressing stories and prompts "Shock, Horror, Cover Up!" type reporting.

The modern media's job is to provide a marketable product to a deadline first and accurate information second because that's what "we" the public apparently want.

I wish that were not true but that's the world we live in. Remember that when you read/hear/see stories in the media about subjects you don't have an insider's viewpoint on. Those other stories will mostly be the same.

If approached for information don't speculate - just give the facts. If you don't know the facts just refer the enquirer to a reputable source and politely explain that speculation is unhelpful and potentially distressing to those involved. That goes for postings on sites like this as well as the media (hi guys!) read these as well.

The investigation will take its course and its publication will lead to greater safety and less tragedy in the future.

A sad loss for all concerned.

[NZ_Girl]

A320

I think with this particular event the most up to date and informative news seems to be coming directly from NZ. Everything else seems to be confused and lacks in some fact. Which is the norm after something like this i guess. Visit the nzherald.co.nz for what seems to me to be the most up-to-date news. We also have to remember that details are still emerging...

It sounds to me like something went very wrong, and on speaking to my partner (who flies these aircraft in NZ) he too has said he would not like to speculate and would prefer to hear the outcome of the flight deck recorder.

[HotDog]

NZ Girl, allow me to disagree. The posts from spagiola and Airbus are more accurate and up to date than the New Zealand Herald.

[Huck]

I do these flights for a living, for my employer, on MD10/MD11's.

We use a standard, ~120 page checklist for both ground and flight checks. The same checklist is used for both post-maintenance and acceptance flights, though sections are omitted/expanded at the PIC's discretion, or at the request of maintenance.

All of our jets are tested after every C check. Over time we have found this to be quite cost-effective, and every time the bean counters cut back on flight test, they inevitably change it back after they start seeing service failures.

It is sobering to see what we find. In two years of doing this I've had two dump valves fail open and one fail closed. I've had a CF-6 refuse to airstart, ultimately resulting in an engine change. I've found a short in an APU ignition circuit that only manifested itself in the air. Also found two ADG's that refused to operate after we dropped them out. And a host of other things.

Right beside us in the hangar at Changi is a major international carrier's 747-400 C check line. Many times I've seen them button it up, tug it over to the terminal and launch full of passengers without so much as a turn around the patch. Oh well.....

[hambleoldboy]

According to eyewitness reports from a group of surfers as detailed in the local newspaper MidiLibre.com the aircraft pitched up and down violently before diving in vertically.

Remember the A330 accident at Toulouse...?