A330/B777. Which is a better A/C ?
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I was on the evaluation team for my airline when we did the evaluations of these aircraft as a DC10 replacement. The flight, technical, and other operational groups unanimously selected the B777, but the A330 was cheaper so guess what we ended up with.
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I'm sorry...
...but this is one the dumbest questions I've seen...better for what and for whom?
It's like ask wich is the better: an Audi A8 ou a BMW 335?
Both are superb machines: 777 is more suited for long haul, high density routes, with excellent cargo capability. Otherwise the A330 is the smartest choice.
Having flown both, as far as the "fun to drive" factor is concerned, I'd pick the triple.
It's like ask wich is the better: an Audi A8 ou a BMW 335?
Both are superb machines: 777 is more suited for long haul, high density routes, with excellent cargo capability. Otherwise the A330 is the smartest choice.
Having flown both, as far as the "fun to drive" factor is concerned, I'd pick the triple.
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Actually I like my scooter better than the Audi or BMW. And it costs about $7 to fill up.
A330-300 vs 777-200
Evaluating the economics of a 5,000NM trip (close to average route length for most 777-200ER operators; long for the A330-300).
The 777-200ERs MTOW is 150,000lbs heavier than the A330-300s. The 777-200ER has the highest fuel burn, which is (at todays prices) $18,000 higher than the A330-300s. Maintenance costs for the A330-300 and 777-200ER: the Airbus will have about $65-90 per hour lower maintenance costs than the 777-200ER. Similar flightcrew salaries, and one less flight attendant for the A330 overall result in the 777-200ER having the highest cash DOC trip cost. This is $19,000 more than the A330-300 on the 5,000NM trip. The 777-200ER also has the highest list price at $190 million, compared to $166 million for the A330-300, but actual prices have been known to vary from list price
. The 777-200ER has a 23-seat higher capacity, which allows more bums on seats to partially overcome its higher trip cost. The 777-200ER still, nevertheless, has the highest cost per seat.
Evaluating the market/pax appeal. The 777-200 wins hands down. I can even stand up straight in the toilet (which leads me to diverge from the thread slightly and wonder aloud about the Airbus toilet designer and how tall (or short) they must be. I'm sure no-one over 6 foot tall can stand up straight in an Airbus toilet in any cabin class. Or maybe there is something about Airbus toilet designers that they actually like bending over backwards and p*ssing on their pants. Rant over. Back to the thread).
Evaluating the suitability for airlines outside the G8 countries. The 777 wins hands down.
And BigJoeRice has already given the evaluation for the flight, technical, and other operational groups above.
A330-300 vs 777-200
Evaluating the economics of a 5,000NM trip (close to average route length for most 777-200ER operators; long for the A330-300).
The 777-200ERs MTOW is 150,000lbs heavier than the A330-300s. The 777-200ER has the highest fuel burn, which is (at todays prices) $18,000 higher than the A330-300s. Maintenance costs for the A330-300 and 777-200ER: the Airbus will have about $65-90 per hour lower maintenance costs than the 777-200ER. Similar flightcrew salaries, and one less flight attendant for the A330 overall result in the 777-200ER having the highest cash DOC trip cost. This is $19,000 more than the A330-300 on the 5,000NM trip. The 777-200ER also has the highest list price at $190 million, compared to $166 million for the A330-300, but actual prices have been known to vary from list price
. The 777-200ER has a 23-seat higher capacity, which allows more bums on seats to partially overcome its higher trip cost. The 777-200ER still, nevertheless, has the highest cost per seat.Evaluating the market/pax appeal. The 777-200 wins hands down. I can even stand up straight in the toilet (which leads me to diverge from the thread slightly and wonder aloud about the Airbus toilet designer and how tall (or short) they must be. I'm sure no-one over 6 foot tall can stand up straight in an Airbus toilet in any cabin class. Or maybe there is something about Airbus toilet designers that they actually like bending over backwards and p*ssing on their pants. Rant over. Back to the thread).
Evaluating the suitability for airlines outside the G8 countries. The 777 wins hands down.
And BigJoeRice has already given the evaluation for the flight, technical, and other operational groups above.
Last edited by OverRun; 14th Jul 2008 at 04:54. Reason: Trip cost diff changed to 19k (not 16k)
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I have the opportunity to bid for one or the other. Other pilots have told me that if you like high tech the 330 is for you, if you like Boeing aircraft for their low tech features then its the 777. I am now leaning for the 330 as having its rating on a license greatly expands ones job options when things go downhill in the industry as is now unfolding before our eyes.
I have flown both types, personally preferring the airbus. I guess the main reason being the disappointment of the lack of advancement in the cockpit of the B777 from the B744, not counting the electronic checklist. The way I see the 777 is a great airplane held back by pilot design inputs.
Both types have shocking pilot seats and the 777 is very noisy in the cockpit.
Flying the 330 seemed to be a lesser workload especially about the equatorial regions as you had higher operational ceilings and could get above the weather.
The main reason that promped me to chane from A330 to B777 was the airline companies use of MFF (CCQ) and the effect it has on your roster when flying the airbus types.
Watch out SQ Airbus 345 drivers when you get the 330...
Both types have shocking pilot seats and the 777 is very noisy in the cockpit.
Flying the 330 seemed to be a lesser workload especially about the equatorial regions as you had higher operational ceilings and could get above the weather.
The main reason that promped me to chane from A330 to B777 was the airline companies use of MFF (CCQ) and the effect it has on your roster when flying the airbus types.
Watch out SQ Airbus 345 drivers when you get the 330...
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Overrun
"I'm sure no-one over 6 foot tall can stand up straight in an Airbus toilet in any cabin class." - I am exactly 6 foot tall and I have never noticed a problem with the height of LH's or AC's A330 toilets. I also find the cabin quieter than any other plane beside the A340, but then I have not flown in a 777 yet.
"Evaluating the suitability for airlines outside the G8 countries. The 777 wins hands down." - Care to elaborate? It boils down to cost per seat for a given route, inside or outside the G8, doesn't it?
I must admit I am surprised by these numbers. I would have thought the 777 to be more efficient. After all, it is a quarter generation ahead...
"I'm sure no-one over 6 foot tall can stand up straight in an Airbus toilet in any cabin class." - I am exactly 6 foot tall and I have never noticed a problem with the height of LH's or AC's A330 toilets. I also find the cabin quieter than any other plane beside the A340, but then I have not flown in a 777 yet.
"Evaluating the suitability for airlines outside the G8 countries. The 777 wins hands down." - Care to elaborate? It boils down to cost per seat for a given route, inside or outside the G8, doesn't it?
I must admit I am surprised by these numbers. I would have thought the 777 to be more efficient. After all, it is a quarter generation ahead...
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Search 'Airbus vs Boeing' on this forum. It has several pages of comparisons and offers differing opinions. Mine is (and being qualified to state it) is the B777 is a piece of junk compared to the Airbus. Given that it is the newest and most modern Boeing to date I would assume therefore that my opinion would apply to all other Boeing products.
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MFF(CCQ)- Mixed-fleet flying (Cross-crew qualification). It means being able to fly either the A330 or A340.
Under MFF you can also hop between flying the A318/319/320/321 one day then A330 the next.
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I have a friend who just left 330/340 to transfer to 777 and he said that the Airbus was better for line operations (lower workload). However the 777 was better during non-normal ops due to the electronic checklist and no requirement for checking FCOM 3 notes, OEBīs, and other nonsence that Airbus canīt seem to put on the ECAM.
Under MFF you can also hop between flying the A318/319/320/321 one day then A330 the next.