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Most difficult approaches

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Most difficult approaches

Old 19th Jun 2008, 10:16
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Question CAT B / CAT C airfields

i would assume that most of the strips in PNG are CAT C due to the obvious un orthodox high risk nature of the arrivals and departures, being conducted in unfavourable winds, terrain, devoid of navaids, conditions of the runway, slope, steep gradient for the desent, cloud base, etc etc.
Any of you gents care to explain in detail perhaps the definitons of CAT B and CAT C airfields?
tried everything under the sun, googled and so forth and came up dry on this one. maybe some bush pilots current or ex, may fill me in..
thanks guys and fly happy
Ace
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Old 19th Jun 2008, 14:36
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The different categories will be laid out in your ops manual. Extract from ours:-

(a) Category A (unrestricted). An aerodrome which satisfies all of the
following requirements:
(i) an approved Instrument approach procedure;
(ii) at least one runway with no performance limited procedure
for take-off and/or landing;
(iii) published circling minima not higher than 1000 ft agl; and
(iv) night operations capability.

(b) Category B. An aerodrome which does not satisfy the Category
A requirements or which requires extra considerations such as:
(i) non-standard approach aids and/or patterns; or
(ii) unusual local weather conditions; or
(iii) unusual characteristics or performance limitations; or
(iv) any other relevant considerations including obstructions,
physical layout, lighting etc.

(c) Category B**. There are special needs for a Category B** airfield
that fall between the Cat B and C requirements. These are
airfields that have terrain, ATC or other environmental
considerations such that the company has specified particular
requirements, but that does not have to satisfy the recency
requirements of a Category C airfield.

(d) Category C. An aerodrome that requires additional
considerations to a Category B** aerodrome. Category C airfields
require the Commander to prove aerodrome competence within
the previous 12 month validity period as indicated by a valid
Category C airfield certificate.
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Old 19th Jun 2008, 18:27
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In my post.........
circling is not allowed
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Old 20th Jun 2008, 00:06
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maybe just me but the VOR app to 21 in ACE can spoil the previous 4 hours of routine.
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Old 21st Jun 2008, 03:38
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The only A, B, C codes related to aerodromes that I'm aware of are the ICAO codes in Annex 14 and, of course, none of them have any bearing on the sort of strips that you've seen in my photos. But, yes, the broad concept of the "C" code, as explained by kishna is pretty close.

There are recency requirements for pilots operating into places like these and they also need a certain amount of animal cunning to interpret strip conditions prior to landing. This includes a requirement for knowledge of the route, or routes, to and from these aerodromes.

There's no "airfield certificate" for these places because the rules here don't require aerodrome certification as a distinction is drawn between aircraft, based on seating capacity. These aerodromes are served by aircraft with seating for up to 19 passengers and this is the cut-off point for certification under our rules.

The regulator places the responsibilty on the operator to ensure that the aerodrome is safe for their operations. This requirement has been responsible for operators ceasing services to some of these places.
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Old 26th Oct 2010, 09:41
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nice thread
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Old 26th Oct 2010, 15:12
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I have done Samos 09 twice on a 757 and didn't think of it as a difficult approach. It's one of the more interesting for sure.

One of the more difficult is probably Nassarsuaq Greenland on a 757. 1800 m Rwy landing with a downslope of -2.7% and the Rwy overrun would put you in the ocean. That was an interesting one as well.
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Old 26th Oct 2010, 19:20
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One of the more difficult is probably Nassarsuaq Greenland on a 757. 1800 m Rwy landing with a downslope of -2.7% and the Rwy overrun would put you in the ocean. That was an interesting one as well.
Yes, and don't even think about it in winds over 25 knots (which are very common) the turbulence created by the air falling down the glacier is absolutely brutal. I once watched a DC-8-63 almost come to grief at BGBW.
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Old 26th Oct 2010, 19:42
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Well challenging approaches that i've flown, LOWI, ENAT and Jackson hole WY.

There's probably many more, but my memory aint what it used to be
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Old 26th Oct 2010, 22:36
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Are you guys serious about 757 or DC-8s using BGBW or do you mean Sondestrom? BGBW is Cat A and B only. BGBW only has 6004 feet of total runway length.

GF
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Old 26th Oct 2010, 22:57
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I've been to BGBW a few times over the last couple of years and yes, I would agree that it can be challenging. Air Greenland operate a 757 into there and apparently land on both 07 and 25. Minima are published for Cat A, B and C. (Not D).

I would doubt that a DC-8 could get in there though.
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Old 26th Oct 2010, 23:23
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Gilgit OPGT - as mentioned interesting, however Chitral definitely worse - OPCH.

However my "favorite" still is Yakawlang in Afghanistan. 8700 ft gravel, only open during summer, and usually ISA +20.......
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Old 26th Oct 2010, 23:41
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NDB A TRUE (GNSS) for CYXP - Pangnirtung, Nunavut, Canada.



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Old 27th Oct 2010, 02:17
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Maybe not as bad as some, but Juneau and Kodiak can be sporting. Pusan Circle 18R is a pain, but mostly because of company "procedures."
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Old 27th Oct 2010, 02:26
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Are you guys serious about 757 or DC-8s using BGBW or do you mean Sondestrom? BGBW is Cat A and B only. BGBW only has 6004 feet of total runway length
Yes, I watched an SK DC-8-63 land at BGBW on more than one occasion back in the eighties - I would not have believed it if I hadn't seen it. Charters from Copenhagen, I think.

On that occasion I was passing through on ferry flights quite frequently.
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Old 27th Oct 2010, 02:42
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Pusan Circle 18R is a pain, but mostly because of company "procedures."

Not to mention the hills. It works to TERPS standards, not PANSOPS. At 2.3 miles, you're just inside the highway. Go outside it and you're in for a whole load of hurt at night - as an Air China 767 found out in 2001 when they didn't appreciate the difference between the circling minima for the two standards!

The big problem with PUS 18R is if you're using it, it usually means you have a 30knt plus quartering tailwind which makes the approach a challenge. We have Kathmandhu and Pusan on our network and I'd rather fly into KTM than the Pusan circling approach at night.
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Old 27th Oct 2010, 05:10
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Quote:
Are you guys serious about 757 or DC-8s using BGBW or do you mean Sondestrom? BGBW is Cat A and B only. BGBW only has 6004 feet of total runway length
Yes, I watched an SK DC-8-63 land at BGBW on more than one occasion back in the eighties - I would not have believed it if I hadn't seen it. Charters from Copenhagen, I think.

On that occasion I was passing through on ferry flights quite frequently.
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On the 80's at PDL/Azores we used to have 707 of Independent Air and D8's of Worldways and Airlift Int from/to USA&Canada with more than 1700 mts!

BTW, my vote goes to Saba, Lukla and old RWY at GIB
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Old 27th Oct 2010, 06:49
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issi noho

maybe just me but the VOR app to 21 in ACE can spoil the previous 4 hours of routine.
Was there a few weeks back for that approach, and agree with you, done the circling at INN a few years back and thought ACE was more demanding.
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Old 27th Oct 2010, 15:55
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Milford Sound in the South Island of NZ. Here's a pic of someone taking the easy way in via rwy 11.



Last edited by 4Foxtrot; 27th Oct 2010 at 18:57.
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