Logging hours as Safety Pilot
Join Date: Aug 2002
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I'm amused at times when I hear the word "safety pilots". You mean a young, sometimes even no rated pilot sitting in the right seat playing the role of a co-pilot or first officer on an aircraft where there is only one pilot needed.
OK, safety is a blury word, but for me a non rated pilot is not an increase in safety per se. To the contrary, sometimes instruction situations may distract the only pilot from its official duties.
The word safety pilot comes from pilots with less experience on the left seat as pilot in command, who have a very experienced rated pilot on their right side as a support. That's a safety pilot.
Well, sorry to interrupt, continue...
Dani
OK, safety is a blury word, but for me a non rated pilot is not an increase in safety per se. To the contrary, sometimes instruction situations may distract the only pilot from its official duties.
The word safety pilot comes from pilots with less experience on the left seat as pilot in command, who have a very experienced rated pilot on their right side as a support. That's a safety pilot.
Well, sorry to interrupt, continue...
Dani
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Dani, I think you're confused.
This discussion is about safety pilots who are sitting on the jump seat when a new pilot is undergoing initial line training on a multi crew aircraft. The safety pilot will do the following:-
1) Supervise the new pilot to ensure that they do not miss anything, or do anything incorrectly.
2) Monitor the training captain, as the new pilot will be like a fish out of water and is unlikely to pick up or question any mistakes that the trainer could make.
3) Take care of the paperwork to reduce the workload of the new pilot.
I would say they are essential during the first few flights.
SW
This discussion is about safety pilots who are sitting on the jump seat when a new pilot is undergoing initial line training on a multi crew aircraft. The safety pilot will do the following:-
1) Supervise the new pilot to ensure that they do not miss anything, or do anything incorrectly.
2) Monitor the training captain, as the new pilot will be like a fish out of water and is unlikely to pick up or question any mistakes that the trainer could make.
3) Take care of the paperwork to reduce the workload of the new pilot.
I would say they are essential during the first few flights.
SW
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What most people do at my company is to log the hours as part of Total Time, but NOT as P2. Having two P2s does not make sense. I log my safety pilot hours at "Other". The CAA do not seem to object to this practice when validating the hours for issuing an ATPL.
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Thanks for that answer permafrost. Logging it as 'Other' neatly avoids the whole multiple P2 ethical minefield.
But after all, at this stage its the TT I'm concerned about anyway to get the ATPL. I have my first duty as safety pilot in a couple of weeks, I'll see what the training captain reckons but your solution makes perfect sense.
But after all, at this stage its the TT I'm concerned about anyway to get the ATPL. I have my first duty as safety pilot in a couple of weeks, I'll see what the training captain reckons but your solution makes perfect sense.
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In fact, that's the reply I've got from the CAA themselfs as well. Log all your supernumery flying in the Other 'column'. I've got another SNY trip coming up in two weeks time. Reminds me when I had a safety pilot on the jumpseat... 
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As a final note on how to log the (safety pilot) hours. Here's the CAA document with all the magic stuff in it. It's called LASORS 2008. It's a good read for all your logbook and flight time recording questions. It's the official CAA document. If for some reason the link doesn't work or we're into 2009+ then go to the www.CAA.co.uk website and search for LASORS + the current year.
Here it is: http://www.caa.co.uk/application.asp...detail&id=1591
Open the large 74mb+ document (pdf) and scroll to Section A - Appendices to Section A - Appendix B - Recoding of Flight Time. Your awnser will be on page 78 in Column F.
Supernumerary goes in column Any Other Flying or Spare and annotate as SNY.
Hope this helps,
Here it is: http://www.caa.co.uk/application.asp...detail&id=1591
Open the large 74mb+ document (pdf) and scroll to Section A - Appendices to Section A - Appendix B - Recoding of Flight Time. Your awnser will be on page 78 in Column F.
Supernumerary goes in column Any Other Flying or Spare and annotate as SNY.
Hope this helps,
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From Lasors.....that's if indeed you have a UK License.
Section F (ii) Pilot supervising Co-Pilot Activities.
Column 4 tells you to log this as P2.
and
Column 5 tells you to enter as per Section C.
which is
Enter time as second pilot or Co-Pilot (P2) duties.
The most important thing is what does your company log this as. Probably as nothing in order to get the max out of you....ie 100 hours in 28 days and 900 in one year.
Now if you have an incident and you've logged hours as P2 while supervising the FO, and this brings you over the 100/28 limit.
Just something to think about.....as it may not be restricted by your companies rostering system. And you may find you are flying around illegal.
Section F (ii) Pilot supervising Co-Pilot Activities.
Column 4 tells you to log this as P2.
and
Column 5 tells you to enter as per Section C.
which is
Enter time as second pilot or Co-Pilot (P2) duties.
The most important thing is what does your company log this as. Probably as nothing in order to get the max out of you....ie 100 hours in 28 days and 900 in one year.
Now if you have an incident and you've logged hours as P2 while supervising the FO, and this brings you over the 100/28 limit.
Just something to think about.....as it may not be restricted by your companies rostering system. And you may find you are flying around illegal.
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Lasors is clear.
When sitting on the jump seat as safety pilot it gets logged as P2.
You can debate it all you like, but lasors says log it as P2 and thats the official word. Anyone queries it then point them at that section.
When sitting on the jump seat as safety pilot it gets logged as P2.
You can debate it all you like, but lasors says log it as P2 and thats the official word. Anyone queries it then point them at that section.
Is LASORS relevant to a Spanish F/O? Or just UK?
Can anyone post a picture of a loogbook with column "others"? My, allegedly, JAR-compliant one has column 10 (Pilot function) divided in four sub-columns; PiC, co-pilot, dual and instructor. Seems I've been cheated
Can anyone post a picture of a loogbook with column "others"? My, allegedly, JAR-compliant one has column 10 (Pilot function) divided in four sub-columns; PiC, co-pilot, dual and instructor. Seems I've been cheated
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Not to sure what you can do under the JAR system, but you "CAN'T" log any supernumerary flying under the Kiwi and Aussie regs. The Airline I fly for generally only has a safety pilot in the jump seat when a pilot in either operating seat has very little to on the line, ie initial line training, the other pilot will always be an experienced training captain. The trainees have always completed the sim and done a post sim excercise in the real aeroplane with a checkie prior to going onto line, hence the trainee logs the hours, and not the safety pilot.
