Factored Met Viz RVR's At Planning Stage?
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Thanks RYR ... Maybe an added saftey margin to not allow it?
Quoted RVR is always much more than met viz ... makes using TAF data much more restrictive at planning stage ..
When you say
I gues you mean for CATII or III ...
Quoted RVR is always much more than met viz ... makes using TAF data much more restrictive at planning stage ..
When you say
Not if the plate has a RVR minimum
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Hmm...good question.
JAR-OPS states that you can not use converted viz to RVR for:
- take-off minima calculation
- CAT 2/3 minima
- or when a reported RVR is available.
in all other cases I think you can, planning or inflight...
Or did I miss something?
Anybody got a JAR-OPS reference? I looked at JAR-OPS Section 1 - Part E
Also, circling approaches are as far as I know based on met viz anyways...so no RVR conversion required.
JAR-OPS states that you can not use converted viz to RVR for:
- take-off minima calculation
- CAT 2/3 minima
- or when a reported RVR is available.
in all other cases I think you can, planning or inflight...
Or did I miss something?
Anybody got a JAR-OPS reference? I looked at JAR-OPS Section 1 - Part E
Also, circling approaches are as far as I know based on met viz anyways...so no RVR conversion required.
Last edited by Bbow; 8th Feb 2008 at 20:15.
Ah, I'm sorry, I understand what you were saying. "Nope" meant "use them unfactored". Obviously I can't speak for your company policy and conservatism is to be applauded. But I think JAR-OPS 1 permits the values to be factored:
Appendix 1 to JAR-OPS 1.430 (h) Conversion of Reported Meteorological Visibility to RVR
(1) An operator must ensure that meteorological visibility to RVR conversion not used for calculating take-off minima, Category II or III minima or when a reported RVR is available.
Note: If the RVR is reported as being above the maximum value assessed by the aerodrome operator, e.g. “RVR more than 1 500 metres”, it is not considered to a reported RVR in this context and the Conversion Table may be used.
(2) When converting meteorological visibility to RVR in all other circumstances than
those in sub-paragraph (h)(1) above, an operator must ensure that the following Table is used:
Planning minima don't fall under para 1, so I think you can use the table according to para 2
Appendix 1 to JAR-OPS 1.430 (h) Conversion of Reported Meteorological Visibility to RVR
(1) An operator must ensure that meteorological visibility to RVR conversion not used for calculating take-off minima, Category II or III minima or when a reported RVR is available.
Note: If the RVR is reported as being above the maximum value assessed by the aerodrome operator, e.g. “RVR more than 1 500 metres”, it is not considered to a reported RVR in this context and the Conversion Table may be used.
(2) When converting meteorological visibility to RVR in all other circumstances than
those in sub-paragraph (h)(1) above, an operator must ensure that the following Table is used:
Planning minima don't fall under para 1, so I think you can use the table according to para 2
ECON cruise, LR cruise...
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Bookworm,
I think the word you need to look at is: "...Conversion of reported meteorological visibility to RVR".
A reported visibilty can only be what is reported from the relevant ATC unit, in a METAR or in a SPECI. A TAF is - as the word implies - a forecast. Therefore, FCST viz > Min. RVR/visibility = go, FCST viz < Min. RVR/visibility = no-go (or go with 2 alternates in case of destination).
Hope this helps,
Empty
I think the word you need to look at is: "...Conversion of reported meteorological visibility to RVR".
A reported visibilty can only be what is reported from the relevant ATC unit, in a METAR or in a SPECI. A TAF is - as the word implies - a forecast. Therefore, FCST viz > Min. RVR/visibility = go, FCST viz < Min. RVR/visibility = no-go (or go with 2 alternates in case of destination).
Hope this helps,
Empty
Empty Cruise
Though I have to credit you with the correct observation of the word "reported" in the title, it doesn't change my opinion.
Met visibility and RVR are two different quantities and you can't simply compare one to the other as if equivalent. JAR-OPS 1 divides the circumstances into two:
1) those in which a met vis to RVR conversion is not permitted at all
and
2) those in which met vis (and the text, as opposed to the title, does not use the word "reported") is factored according to the conversion table.
There are no circumstances in which met vis should be compared with RVR by simply ignoring the factors in the table or pretending that they are all 1.
Though I have to credit you with the correct observation of the word "reported" in the title, it doesn't change my opinion.
Met visibility and RVR are two different quantities and you can't simply compare one to the other as if equivalent. JAR-OPS 1 divides the circumstances into two:
1) those in which a met vis to RVR conversion is not permitted at all
and
2) those in which met vis (and the text, as opposed to the title, does not use the word "reported") is factored according to the conversion table.
There are no circumstances in which met vis should be compared with RVR by simply ignoring the factors in the table or pretending that they are all 1.