New 110-160 seat narrowbody -20% fuel design; what do you think

[keesje]

Desert liner, I think Boeing and Airbus (at least the research institues) as shown below seem to move in the direction of aft located engines. Higher BPR's are possible as well as noise shielding, clean wings .

If you look hard enough and knwo the keywords you can even find recent research reports. (source in red)



Apparently they call the tail "powered tail" and have been doing wind tunnel research, which means it ius probably more then a bad idea..

[llondel]

On lateral stability I think aircraft like the F117 are basicly unstable and still fly.

A lot of military aircraft start with an unstable design and use control electronics to stabilise them for flight. This gives a very fast response to control input, useful if someone's shooting at you or you need to shoot at them. Commercial aircraft tend to be designed for stability so they don't rely on a lot of control software to just keep them in the air. You don't want to be doing barrel-rolls in a passenger plane (707 excepted...) just because your hand twitched.

[Rainboe]

keesj- note the designs have a far greater vertical element than your canted tailplane tips. Rear engines give a rear c of g which requires a far greater fin. I would suggest your first design would have little directional stability. It's all very well for these designs to point out an unobstructed wing is 'more efficient'. It is leaving out the negative side of the design where engines on the wing provide a lot of 'wing bending relief' making the wing structure lighter and simpler. It is interesting that the 'engines on wing' formula (737,757, A320 series) was found to be far more efficient and successful than the rear engined designs (BAC1-11, DC-9 series). Even the Russians have dispensed with rear engine designs and concentrated on 737/A320 planforms with their latest designs. Perhaps a chase after maximum theoretical efficiency is not the most cost efffective way.

I think the next step will be revolutionary, on the lines I suggested. The disadvantages of the traditional tailplane at the back/standard circular fuselage/engines on wing can be overcome. Lifting body, no windows, smaller wings, canard, engines buried within fuselage at rear with noise attenuating B2/F117 type ehausts- then you must have fantastic gains in efficiency and noise. Why would you need windows when the whole sidewall can be large curved LCD screens of the outside view, floor to ceiling? How fantastic would that be? No asking someone to get their head out of the way! The video technology is almost already on us.

[Jet_A_Knight]

Build it in X-Plane using the Plane maker program, and see how it flies.

Many other designers are doing the same, apparently.

[Sl4yer]

Originally Posted by Desert Diner

Going off on a tangent now, I wonder if Concorde would have been certified under current requirements.

I'm curious about this. Why might it not? Except for electrical signalling, the flight controls are pretty conventional aren't they?

[james ozzie]

Thunderbird 2!

Quote:
That big green vertical transport aircraft-Thunderbird 2: http://davidszondy.com/future/Thunde...underbird2.htm ...... stunning- lifting body, vertical flight, stubby wings- incredible. Talk about ahead of its time!
Yes, and powered by a sparkler and a piece of fishing line!

[keesje]

Time to resurrect a 5year old thread,

Embraer now actually is considering an aircraft this size, 5 abreast.

Embraer CEO Frederico Curado during an earnings call today stated in his "humble opinion" a new design by Boeing makes a "lot of sense".
Boeing's ultimate decision will directly influence Embraer's strategy in the 130-seat market, says Curado. "We are waiting to understand where Boeing is going", before taking a decision to engage in the development of a five-abreast aircraft, he explains.

Embraer waits for Boeing?s move before defining new aircraft strategy

I wouldn't still rule out Embraer and Boeing finding each other either, Embraer < 150 seats, Boeing > 150 seats.. similar to what Bombardier and Comac announced yesterday.

2007 "LRJ" artist impression by Henry Lam, 5 abreast, big geared turbofans.

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z...rrow_bod-1.jpg