B747-400 no stick pusher
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The UK authorities required the addition of a stick nudger in certification of the early B747-100 as ordered by B.O.A.C.. If it was fitted to the later -100s and the -200s, then it was almost certainly de-activated, as a nudger was not part of stall recovery techniques as taught. The -400s did not have a nudger fitted. As has been described earlier, the stalling characteristics of the 747 family are quite gentle compared to other types.
ZbV
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Pusher/Nudger
The B747 "Classic" models I flew didnt have a stickpusher however B767 does have one and it is active in Flaps up condition, quite effective too.
JJ
JJ
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VC10 Stick Pusher
Likw DW I am also an ex VC10 driver. If memory serves, the push force was 88 pounds (I need to get out more!), which was hard work to hold - even on the pre flight check.
Is Beagle available for confirmation?
Is Beagle available for confirmation?
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B-727 Stick Push
I think that Dan-Air was the only company to fit the stick push on the B-727. This was done on the insistance of Dai Davies, the CAA test pilot, despite the fact that the aircraft had been happily flying all over the world without anyone managing to deep-stall the aircraft in airline service.
It cost the company a fortune, and was quickly removed once Mr Davies retired and he was succeeded by someone less dogmatic.
Thereafter he was always known as "Dai the Push" in Dan-Air.
It cost the company a fortune, and was quickly removed once Mr Davies retired and he was succeeded by someone less dogmatic.
Thereafter he was always known as "Dai the Push" in Dan-Air.
Cool as a moosp
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I've only done a few stalls in the -400 but this is my impression, and I bow to those who have done many.
The 747-400 has a benign stall charateristic, and reminds one of a Piper Cherokee. A bit of sloshing around and soggy controls and a floppyness in the air that was well described by my instructor as "like an old woman sh*gging." No doubt one day I will be able to compare the metaphor.
There is no marked pitch down, indeed I noticed no pitch down at all, but the surprising thing is that all the controls remain effective deep into the stall. So it is the matter of a moment to level the wings and lower the nose. The one aspect that is very surprising is that as you are lulled into the gentleness of the stall and its controllability you look at the VSI which is indicating in excess of 2500 fpm - and sometimes appreciably more.
So a nudger or a pusher is not needed, but if you ever get close to a stall in the -400 I would recommend that you get out of it mighty quick, as the altitude loss will surprise you.
I find our simulator model for the stall to be an adequate simulation but the physiological inputs which are so vital to stall recognition, such as sound and G variations are not realistic.
Yes, the Trident and the VC10 had a pusher, (VC10 less violent that the Trident) and they worked well as long as you did not isolate them on the very occasion that they worked properly. As many of you know the Papa India Trident crash had a contributory cause in that the stick push was isolated, and therefore could not do its job. Isolating the stick push was practiced at yearly intervals in the simulator, on the assumption that every fire of it would be false. Until the one occasion that it was right...
The 747-400 has a benign stall charateristic, and reminds one of a Piper Cherokee. A bit of sloshing around and soggy controls and a floppyness in the air that was well described by my instructor as "like an old woman sh*gging." No doubt one day I will be able to compare the metaphor.
There is no marked pitch down, indeed I noticed no pitch down at all, but the surprising thing is that all the controls remain effective deep into the stall. So it is the matter of a moment to level the wings and lower the nose. The one aspect that is very surprising is that as you are lulled into the gentleness of the stall and its controllability you look at the VSI which is indicating in excess of 2500 fpm - and sometimes appreciably more.
So a nudger or a pusher is not needed, but if you ever get close to a stall in the -400 I would recommend that you get out of it mighty quick, as the altitude loss will surprise you.
I find our simulator model for the stall to be an adequate simulation but the physiological inputs which are so vital to stall recognition, such as sound and G variations are not realistic.
Yes, the Trident and the VC10 had a pusher, (VC10 less violent that the Trident) and they worked well as long as you did not isolate them on the very occasion that they worked properly. As many of you know the Papa India Trident crash had a contributory cause in that the stick push was isolated, and therefore could not do its job. Isolating the stick push was practiced at yearly intervals in the simulator, on the assumption that every fire of it would be false. Until the one occasion that it was right...
