From a Boeing to an Airbus - Pilot Point of View
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after reading your comments on the autothrottle, I remember when in the 320sim , you have to "recycle" the throttle, or you have no power.
I can not say at what stage of the flight, we got this "simulation"or if it was a sim problem, but our instructor told us to recycle the power...
I can not say at what stage of the flight, we got this "simulation"or if it was a sim problem, but our instructor told us to recycle the power...
One thing that does confuse is "TOGA LOCK" where the thrust can go to TOGA and the action to get the thrust out of TOGA is to take the thrust levers up to TOGA and then back. It is not a big deal IF you understand what has happened. If you are confuses, moving or non-moving thrust levers won't make a lot of difference.
While on the 'bus, I disconnected the 'stuff' occcasionally just to reintroduce 'soul' back into the airplane (to use the jargon from another post). Moving the thrust levers and flying without a flight director didn't exactly take me back to the DC-3 and without trim, I was still some distance from the airplane but a lot of the fuss over the -320 comes from people who haven't flown the airplane.
I always said to senior guys, "It is not only confusing but with all those electrons floating around, I read one report that it can either make you sterile or cause erectile dysfunctions. And the entire oral must be done in FRENCH!!" My efforts were not totally successful in keeping the senior boys off...
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Isn't it a golden rule for automation airplanes ... ???
I would see two main reasons to disconnect AP or (and) A/THR:
1- For fun
2- Under pressure cos you're surprised by what you get through automation this time, and you want to go back to basic as quickly as possible.
But if you have never been caught yet ...
Do not worry ... your turn will come !
This debate and the descriptive comments here are quite interesting. I hope to go to leave the old jet and transition somehow to the Airbus 320/319 when a slot is open (in a year?). The junior displaced Captains can always return to previous position before the more senior pilots' bids go into effect for Initial Training 
.
I've often preferred a yoke in front of me to steer, whether right or left seat, but maybe a stick on the left side can feel a bit normal after a few sims.
Although a leftie, still prefer right hand for joystick at home for excellent WW2aircraft flight on (Ubisoft) "Sturmovik Forgotten Battles AEP". The most user-friendly.
. I've often preferred a yoke in front of me to steer, whether right or left seat, but maybe a stick on the left side can feel a bit normal after a few sims.
Although a leftie, still prefer right hand for joystick at home for excellent WW2aircraft flight on (Ubisoft) "Sturmovik Forgotten Battles AEP". The most user-friendly.
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heres the report on the 777 software failure incident...
http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/...200503722.aspx
http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/...200503722.aspx
Last edited by DISCOKID; 16th Nov 2006 at 09:19. Reason: fixed link
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Currently on the A320/A321, i'm going the other way Airbus to Boeing after 5 yrs on the minibus, my number can either hold an F/O slot on B-757 or Capt B737-300/400, hard choices, i'll miss the ease of the Airboose Logique, but i shall enjoy either the performance of the 757 or have another turn at the responsibility of command! I await the laughs of my sim instructor and partner, as i transistion to not having autotrim or having to read the FMA religiously.
Goodbye! SECs,FMGC,SDAC,LGCIU,DMC& U and all the other computers and associated faults and spurious warnings that i have become so familiar with; wont get caught again forgetting to activate the approach and then managing the speed! oh joy, So long! beloved traytable & footrests, back to resting the tray on the logbook; hmmm let me see, nope cant hold a 330 slot, Boeing Baby here i come! Seriously aslong as i can hold a slot on any of the company's fleet and the check doesn't bounce (more concerned about my daysoff & benefits than the type i fly), i'm happy with either Airbus or Boeing, flown manually with AP,FD and the autothrust off, as i am apt to do on a lovely VMC day, its almost as much fun, as flying my own airplanes.
Goodbye! SECs,FMGC,SDAC,LGCIU,DMC& U and all the other computers and associated faults and spurious warnings that i have become so familiar with; wont get caught again forgetting to activate the approach and then managing the speed! oh joy, So long! beloved traytable & footrests, back to resting the tray on the logbook; hmmm let me see, nope cant hold a 330 slot, Boeing Baby here i come! Seriously aslong as i can hold a slot on any of the company's fleet and the check doesn't bounce (more concerned about my daysoff & benefits than the type i fly), i'm happy with either Airbus or Boeing, flown manually with AP,FD and the autothrust off, as i am apt to do on a lovely VMC day, its almost as much fun, as flying my own airplanes.
Last edited by Ag2A320; 17th Nov 2006 at 00:45.
I did the swap over a year ago. It's different.
My advice:
Airbus publish their golden rules. One is 'The aircraft flys like any other'. Don't forget this. The level of automation is high and it's easy to sit there and think what can I do do correct this situation through the box when all you have to do it take out the automatics and fly it yourself.
Fly it yourself as much as you can. It's natural to use the automatics but this will erode your flying skills. My company has just bought some glass Boeings and a couple of convertees have failed because thay let their flying skills lapse after 10 years on the bus.
The progression for ECAM drills are OEBs - ECAM - QRH - FCOM3. Don't forget that some ECAM drills will be superceeded by OEBs. And with the ECAM drills, if you don't have some knowledge of the system and what it is you are trying to acheive with the drill, you could create problems for yourself. The ECAM is supposed to make life easier but as in anything in life, you can make even easier with a bit of study.
Use TRACK/FPA for non precision approaches and manual flying. It's brilliant!
Don't listen to the Boeing diehards who trash the bus without knowing what they're talking about. I came to the bus with an open mind and I was pleasantly suprised. The automatics are superior (certainly from the Boeing I used to fly which constantly made you aware that it was a classic jet with the glass grafted on top), it's a very pleasant and easy working environment - and that table. It's fantastic!
My advice:
Airbus publish their golden rules. One is 'The aircraft flys like any other'. Don't forget this. The level of automation is high and it's easy to sit there and think what can I do do correct this situation through the box when all you have to do it take out the automatics and fly it yourself.
Fly it yourself as much as you can. It's natural to use the automatics but this will erode your flying skills. My company has just bought some glass Boeings and a couple of convertees have failed because thay let their flying skills lapse after 10 years on the bus.
The progression for ECAM drills are OEBs - ECAM - QRH - FCOM3. Don't forget that some ECAM drills will be superceeded by OEBs. And with the ECAM drills, if you don't have some knowledge of the system and what it is you are trying to acheive with the drill, you could create problems for yourself. The ECAM is supposed to make life easier but as in anything in life, you can make even easier with a bit of study.
Use TRACK/FPA for non precision approaches and manual flying. It's brilliant!
Don't listen to the Boeing diehards who trash the bus without knowing what they're talking about. I came to the bus with an open mind and I was pleasantly suprised. The automatics are superior (certainly from the Boeing I used to fly which constantly made you aware that it was a classic jet with the glass grafted on top), it's a very pleasant and easy working environment - and that table. It's fantastic!
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The Airbus is designed for people without basic flying skills.
i.e. Don't know how to cross-control on takeoff or landing-no problem-just leave the stick alone and the sytem will take over from you.
Don't know how to calculate wind additives on approach-no problem-g/s mini will take care of it (unless the headwind down to 200ft is above 60kt then g/s mini will not let you go below VFE next.)
Don't know what the thrust lever position should be for various flight phases-no problem-they don't give you any feedback and they never fail!
Don't know what contol input the other pilot or autopilot is introducing-no problem-that is none of your business.
But the tray table is so sweet!
i.e. Don't know how to cross-control on takeoff or landing-no problem-just leave the stick alone and the sytem will take over from you.
Don't know how to calculate wind additives on approach-no problem-g/s mini will take care of it (unless the headwind down to 200ft is above 60kt then g/s mini will not let you go below VFE next.)
Don't know what the thrust lever position should be for various flight phases-no problem-they don't give you any feedback and they never fail!
Don't know what contol input the other pilot or autopilot is introducing-no problem-that is none of your business.
But the tray table is so sweet!
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It's amazing to see how even adult professional pilots can still engage in these futile A vs B debates. Very childish! While reading this thread, I thought I was on the flightsimmers forum on Airliners.net!
I have flown both B737 (2,3,4,500) and the A320 series.
They're both great aircraft!
Which Do I prefer? Definitely the A320! In automatic and in manual flight!
In "my" company, we are still allowed to fly the Airbus with A/P, A/T and F/D off and we do so on most of the approches. But it's very nice to know that, if necessary, this baby can bring me to an automatic full stop on the centerline in 0/0 vis, with one engine out!
(Just a personal opinion. You don't have to agree, but at least respect the opinion!)
I have flown both B737 (2,3,4,500) and the A320 series.
They're both great aircraft!
Which Do I prefer? Definitely the A320! In automatic and in manual flight!
In "my" company, we are still allowed to fly the Airbus with A/P, A/T and F/D off and we do so on most of the approches. But it's very nice to know that, if necessary, this baby can bring me to an automatic full stop on the centerline in 0/0 vis, with one engine out!
(Just a personal opinion. You don't have to agree, but at least respect the opinion!)
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Just a joke ...
There was Joe Bloke, with his future ex-wife, both sitting across the judge who
was handing out their divorce papers. She then said stiffly: Oh, by the way honey,
I always faked my orgasms.
There was poor Joe Bloke again, this time alone, sitting across his chief pilot
who handed him his retirement papers. The CP then says unemotionally: Oh, by the way Joe,
the side-stick was never connected.
was handing out their divorce papers. She then said stiffly: Oh, by the way honey,
I always faked my orgasms.
There was poor Joe Bloke again, this time alone, sitting across his chief pilot
who handed him his retirement papers. The CP then says unemotionally: Oh, by the way Joe,
the side-stick was never connected.
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There was Joe Bloke, with his future ex-wife, both sitting across the judge who
was handing out their divorce papers. She then said stiffly: Oh, by the way honey,
I always faked my orgasms.
There was poor Joe Bloke again, this time alone, sitting across his chief pilot
who handed him his retirement papers. The CP then says unemotionally: Oh, by the way Joe,
the side-stick was never connected.
was handing out their divorce papers. She then said stiffly: Oh, by the way honey,
I always faked my orgasms.
There was poor Joe Bloke again, this time alone, sitting across his chief pilot
who handed him his retirement papers. The CP then says unemotionally: Oh, by the way Joe,
the side-stick was never connected.
Oh no......
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There was Joe Bloke, with his future ex-wife, both sitting across the judge who
was handing out their divorce papers. She then said stiffly: Oh, by the way honey,
I always faked my orgasms.
There was poor Joe Bloke again, this time alone, sitting across his chief pilot
who handed him his retirement papers. The CP then says unemotionally: Oh, by the way Joe,
the side-stick was never connected.
was handing out their divorce papers. She then said stiffly: Oh, by the way honey,
I always faked my orgasms.
There was poor Joe Bloke again, this time alone, sitting across his chief pilot
who handed him his retirement papers. The CP then says unemotionally: Oh, by the way Joe,
the side-stick was never connected.
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Quote: "It's amazing to see how even adult professional pilots can still engage in these futile A vs B debates. Very childish! While reading this thread, I thought I was on the flightsimmers forum on Airliners.net"
sabenaboy;
I regret that you find this type of discussion futile and childish. I think most debates here are interesting or at the very least entertaining. I have learned a lot from this forum and I hope others especially the newbies find it a worthwhile exchange. I will work on improving my sense of humour.
sabenaboy;
I regret that you find this type of discussion futile and childish. I think most debates here are interesting or at the very least entertaining. I have learned a lot from this forum and I hope others especially the newbies find it a worthwhile exchange. I will work on improving my sense of humour.
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The Airbus is designed for people without basic flying skills
However I do hope the newbies won't take your personal opinion seriously. We find skillful pilots in any type of aircraft in any part of the world. It's dependent on a pilot's previous training, experience, knowledge and enthusiasm in their careers. There are useless pilots on the Boeing as well as on the Airbus.
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If you really want to go back to early days of fly-by-wire, the X-15 used the same system though with analogue processing and it was a side stick though sadly they didn't have a tray for the inflight.
Some interesting postings as to how an airbus flies!
Regards
TOD
Some interesting postings as to how an airbus flies!
Regards
TOD
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The biggest difference I found on conversion to the A from the B was the Auto-trim/auto-thrust combination. The fact that the thrust levers don't move never entered the equation. The change in thrust when levelling off/decending etc. and the really difficult job of either pushing or pulling on the side stick the effect the change is really so easy that it sometimes seems that you have forgotten something! Not having to trim the HS takes a great deal of workload off you when hand flying the aircraft.
Other than getting used to that, it's brilliant! I have been on the B 737 from the 200 up to the -800 for the last 26 years and I have to say that I was a reluctant debutant on the Airbus, but one year later, I have seen the light. Enjoy it folks, it works.
Other than getting used to that, it's brilliant! I have been on the B 737 from the 200 up to the -800 for the last 26 years and I have to say that I was a reluctant debutant on the Airbus, but one year later, I have seen the light. Enjoy it folks, it works.
Only half a speed-brake
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After reading dozens of posts on this A-B debate I'm still wondering why the scenario is all the same : many pilots making fun of the Bus and many pilots defending it and almost never any pilot making fun of the Boeing planes and no pilots having to defend it? If you think I'm not right read the previous posts and do a search..
I've never tried to put a plane above other,I think any plane is fun to fly,and a very nice machine.
The old turboprop that I flew years ago,almost no automatics,except for level flight,and hdg,was fun to fly,and a very reliable airplane.And you had to do all by yourself,even pressurization was manual.No computer whatsoever.
The modern fully automated airplane that can do all the things for you,even sometimes simulating real,manual flight for you,can be fun to fly.It's how you learn to master the machine that can make all the fun from it.Even if you won't touch the controls.
Maybe next generation airplanes will be 'thought' controlled.You think they won't be fun flying? I doubt.
The plane that I really won't like flying will be the plane that will keep me grounded,not needing me in the air with it.
Enjoy flying
I've never tried to put a plane above other,I think any plane is fun to fly,and a very nice machine.
The old turboprop that I flew years ago,almost no automatics,except for level flight,and hdg,was fun to fly,and a very reliable airplane.And you had to do all by yourself,even pressurization was manual.No computer whatsoever.
The modern fully automated airplane that can do all the things for you,even sometimes simulating real,manual flight for you,can be fun to fly.It's how you learn to master the machine that can make all the fun from it.Even if you won't touch the controls.
Maybe next generation airplanes will be 'thought' controlled.You think they won't be fun flying? I doubt.
The plane that I really won't like flying will be the plane that will keep me grounded,not needing me in the air with it.
Enjoy flying
