Originally Posted by trident3A
(Post 10761381)
Finnair A319 just departed 09L and flew over London on the runway heading. I've seen a few of these departures recently - I wondered in what circumstances do they ignore the SIDs?
I'm not aware of any dispensations being granted, so technically it would be classed as off-track. That said, before it turned it was already at 6,000' so it must have been pretty light. |
What is the point of sticking to SIDS - structured to apply appropriate separation on departure - when there is little traffic (in comparison to normal) to separate from ? In these circumstances, I would have abandoned SIDS in periods of continuing low levels of traffic. But, I didn’t work at EGLL !
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Originally Posted by kcockayne
(Post 10762000)
What is the point of sticking to SIDS - structured to apply appropriate separation on departure - when there is little traffic (in comparison to normal) to separate from ?
That Finnair was indeed recognised as being "off-track", as can be seen from the highlight on the WebTrak plot: https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....d2d9bb7ab9.jpg I don't see what lack of traffic has got to do with not following the NPR. |
A Dublin flight did the same thing shortly afterwards. I just wondered how it works, do they acknowledge a BPK clearance for instance but just amend it before take off on the basis that there’s no other traffic and they can comply with noise restrictions.
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Maybe it’s to route them clear of other priority traffic
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK
(Post 10762068)
The first part of the SID is also designated by the Government as the centreline of the Noise Preferential Route (NPR), which airlines are obliged to follow, designed to avoid overflight of built-up areas where possible.
That Finnair was indeed recognised as being "off-track", as can be seen from the highlight on the WebTrak plot: https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....d2d9bb7ab9.jpg I don't see what lack of traffic has got to do with not following the NPR. |
Originally Posted by kcockayne
(Post 10762108)
Well, that’s why I made the point that I didn’t work at EGLL - so I did not have a full appreciation of the NPR requirements there. The SIDS where I did work, EGJJ, were not , as far as I can remember, mandatory as a required route if there was no traffic to separate from. As I remember it, we were at liberty not to use the SIDS should we require it (although, it was probably less hassle to stick with the SIDS - even if they were not strictly necessary). Anyway, thanks for setting me straight. I guess that once the a/c concerned in these instances had gained sufficient altitude so as not to exceed noise requirements, they were able to take a more expeditious route.
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Cargologicair 747 G-CLAA just departed Heathrow - another unusual visitor?
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Originally Posted by treadigraph
(Post 10762730)
Cargologicair 747 G-CLAA just departed Heathrow - another unusual visitor?
UK clears CargoLogicAir to resume freight flights |
Was there a smallish prop-job in Heathrow yesterday ? Friend said they saw a 'greyish' overwing 2 propeller aircraft sometime in the morning.
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Originally Posted by SpringHeeledJack
(Post 10762935)
Was there a smallish prop-job in Heathrow yesterday ? Friend said they saw a 'greyish' overwing 2 propeller aircraft sometime in the morning.
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....b922d6539c.jpg Polish Air Force CASA C-295M military transport. https://www.planespotters.net/photo/...ce-casa-c-295m |
Regarding NPRs, maybe an exemption has been given for certain 09L departures as when on single runway and on westerly ops for the whole week the runway alternation does not apply...
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Originally Posted by Musket90
(Post 10762983)
Regarding NPRs, maybe an exemption has been given for certain 09L departures as when on single runway and on westerly ops for the whole week the runway alternation does not apply...
I haven't seen any announcement of an exemption from the requirement to follow the NPRs. On the contrary, Heathrow's coronavirus website, in introducing single-runway operations, gave the following undertaking: "Q: Will there be new flight paths as a result of this change? A: Our flight paths will be unaffected by this change to our runway operation." That said, more than a third of departures yesterday were "off-track" (i.e. radar tracking revealed that they were not following the NPRs). |
I presume the Polish C-295 has forsaken Biggin Hill for its regular visits at the moment?
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What's the story ? Wouldn't it go into Northolt being that it's military ?
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SpringHeeled - Just checked Notams for Northolt and this may explain it.AD OPERATING HOURS 0830-1930 FOR UK MILITARY AND CIVILIAN MEDICAL
FLIGHTS ONLY. |
That said, more than a third of departures yesterday were "off-track" (i.e. radar tracking revealed that they were not following the NPRs).[/QUOTE]
Thanks Dave. It's interesting that some northbound 09L departures are off the NPR track. ATC are permitted to deviate from the NPR above 4000ft but webtrack indicates they are below this altitude when continuing beyond the point where they should have made a left turn. . |
Polish AF C-295s have been regulars several times a week at Biggin for several years. I assumed it was the Embassy run but I have been led to believe they are often returning Polish ne'er-do-wells and fugitives... allegedly!
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Originally Posted by Musket90
(Post 10763092)
Thanks Dave. It's interesting that some northbound 09L departures are off the NPR track. ATC are permitted to deviate from the NPR above 4000ft but webtrack indicates they are below this altitude when continuing beyond the point where they should have made a left turn. .
All of the NPRs only apply below 4000'. |
Polish AF C-295s have been regulars several times a week at Biggin for several years. I assumed it was the Embassy run but I have been led to believe they are often returning Polish ne'er-do-wells and fugitives... allegedly! |
I think they are fugitives from Polish justice and are being repatriated under the European Arrest Warrant scheme. Most of the Poles I've come across are indeed great people including my neighbour!
Biggin was also used by the Trumpton Air Force last year as Northolt was closed for resurfacing for some months. It's actually owned by Bromley Council - perhaps the cons are held nearby pending repatriation. |
Heathrow seems quite busy today - just my imagination or is there a bit more activity?
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Originally Posted by treadigraph
(Post 10763942)
Heathrow seems quite busy today - just my imagination or is there a bit more activity?
Many people will be seeing more (or fewer) aircraft today, not because there has been any change in the number of movements but because, after 10 days of operation on easterlies (using 09L or 09R), the wind changed direction this morning and brought 27s into use (currently 27R, from tomorrow 27L). So how many aircraft you're seeing is largely a function of where you live. |
It was more my occasional looks at Flight Tracker, just seemed to be more arrivals/departures. I am getting stuff over the top though which I haven't for a while, had been just a glimpse of 09 outbounds heading for Dover!
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Originally Posted by treadigraph
(Post 10763999)
It was more my occasional looks at Flight Tracker, just seemed to be more arrivals/departures. I am getting stuff over the top though which I haven't for a while, had been just a glimpse of 09 outbounds heading for Dover!
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK
(Post 10764140)
It looks like today's arrivals may after all end up nudging 100, so around 10-12 more than recent days. We'll see when the stats come in tomorrow.
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK
(Post 10764601)
Yesterday's total was indeed exactly 100 landings, so about one extra per hour compared to the previous few days.
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Originally Posted by trident3A
(Post 10764663)
Out of interest where do you get the stats from?
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In the last hour, by chance I looked up and saw a Nordwind Airlines 777 (Aeroflot sub ??) and a Korean Airlines 777F floating by into LHR
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The nordwind VP-BJP B777 On N4\NWS9410 UUEE-EGLL
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I've also noticed that since the start of the restrictions a month ago, there have been daily FA8X flights in and out of LHR. What's that all about ?
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What time have the Falcons been in/out?
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One departed this evening callsign SHE49D (Shell) reg VQ-BXH looks to be bound for Rotterdam which is Shell aircraft's base. Shell used to operate into Heathrow many years ago when slots were available. Now slots have become available again so maybe it's their preferred choice.
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Aaah! Shell....normally based at LCY which is closed to them, so LHR it is! They (2) seemed to leave/arrive both in the morning and evening. The one I saw earlier came from Kuwait, so that would tie in with the oil/gas industry.
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Originally Posted by SpringHeeledJack
(Post 10767582)
I've also noticed that since the start of the restrictions a month ago, there have been daily FA8X flights in and out of LHR. What's that all about ?
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FR24 this evening showing a couple of Jota RJs arrived from Casablanca then position to their Southend base an hour or so afterwards.
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Yes, G-JOTR zapped over here a short while ago.
There was a 737-300, 9H-ZAK, popped in to Heathrow last night, saw it about 20.30. |
SAUDIA 787-10
Anyone notice yesterday the UZBEK 763 in mid afternoon (usually mid week late evening?) plus the Saudia 787-10 (is this a first for LHR? from this carrier this type?)
Interesting types still continue to flood in. Seems as a lot of the oddities are becoming regular now like the JAL 789. Up at Birmingham the MNG A306F seems to be almost a daily flight now. Passed just north of the London area around 2.30pm yesterday afternoon |
Nordwind 777 just heading out of LHR
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Showing as VP-BJH B777 NWS This is X Singapore 9V-SVO C\N28533
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