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New approaches into Heathrow
In a Guardian article today, the arguments of which, as a frequent visitor to Richmond Park, I fully support, it states the planes will fly over Richmond Park at 1,500ft. Is this true? The closest point of Richmond Park to the southern runway is approximately 5nm. Would even the heaviest plane not have gained more altitude by then? The current approach chart gives 1720ft at 5nm but Richmond Park is not on the extended centre line, will a curved final approach be possible one day? Even if more aircraft overfly the Park at 2,000 or 2,500ft that is still a depressing prospect. I think the figure of 1,500ft was derived from a shaded map produced by the Heathrow Consultation. |
New approaches into Heathrow Would even the heaviest plane not have gained more altitude by then? |
These may help. Heathrow approach profile for 3 deg and 3.2 deg.
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....e705e3ecbe.jpg https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....8f57452df9.jpg |
Do inbounds fly over Richmond Park at all on approach surely it is two far to the south to be on final for 27L they most definitely do fly over Old Deer park which is the big green expanse running along the south bank ( the thames runs S-N at this point so the south bank is really the east bank) and then the extended centre line runs north of Richmond station and pretty close to and parallel to the main Richmond to Waterloo line. 27R of course is to the North and the approach runs south of the river (back on its normal orientation again) over Kew Gardens .
Departures on easterlies however do fly over Richmond Park at the Kingston end |
Originally Posted by pax britanica
(Post 10495708)
Do inbounds fly over Richmond Park at all on approach
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Originally Posted by chevvron
(Post 10495724)
They fly over Craven Cottage; most distracting when Fulham are winning.
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Originally Posted by chevvron
(Post 10495724)
They fly over Craven Cottage; most distracting when Fulham are winning.
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Do you mean Old Deer Park?
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No. According to the Heathrow Airspace and Future Operations Consultation hundreds of planes will fly at low altitude over Richmond Park – a national nature reserve – for the first time. I can’t link to the Guardian article as you need to have posted 10 times to be able to include a URL. Here’s a quote however, "It seems irrational then that the government is allowing Heathrow, as part of its plans for the third runway, to propose routing for the first time 47 low-flying arrivals as well as between 17 and 47 extra departures every hour directly over Richmond Park, London’s largest open space, a national nature reserve and a site of special scientific interest.” And another "Under the Heathrow expansion plans, hundreds of planes would produce noise levels of up to 80dB – nearly eight times the WHO guidelines – flying at 1,500 feet over the park." |
Re the OP and " will a curved final approach be possible one day?"
From a pure aviating POV it's been possible since the days of the Wright brothers ...but in the context of this thread, airliners and a poor'ish weather approach using a curved segment connecting to a short straight final leg (e.g; typically a couple of miles or so) that was done at the old Hong Kong Airport for years, is still done elsewhere e.g. JFK, Tokyo HND and these days with advances in navigation systems it is a form of approach architecture being increasingly seen elsewhere. I think the bigger challenge will be the interaction of these proposed new routes with the rest of the controlled airspace in that part of the world. I can’t link to the Guardian article as you need to have posted 10 times to be able to include a URL. https://www.theguardian.com/society/...-mental-health There's an older related FT article here ( apologies if be hidden behind a paywall) https://www.ft.com/content/3305a2c8-...1-4ff78404524e From which: ..“independent parallel approaches” (IPA)" ..."involves new arrival routes into Heathrow for certain flights. Heathrow conceded that “some of these flight paths could overfly areas that are not affected by Heathrow arrivals today”. |
Yes it is. |
Here's the article though it pains me to link to such a news organisation.
I'm not sure why the expansion would entail more arrivals flying over Richmond Park - so far as I'm aware the additional runway will be north of the airport? Might be additional Dover departures from 09R when on Easterlies. |
Originally Posted by lobby
(Post 10495654)
Shouldn't be gaining height on the approach.
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I would think any departure will be at least 3000' by the time it is overhead Richmond Park.
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Originally Posted by treadigraph
(Post 10495971)
...I'm not sure why the expansion would entail more arrivals flying over Richmond Park - so far as I'm aware the additional runway will be north of the airport? Might be additional Dover departures from 09R when on Easterlies.
Sounds to me as if the "problem" being discussed with regards to Richmond Park is one that that would be caused by curved or offset approaches to e.g. 27 Left where (I haven't plotted this, so I'm just guessing at the numbers to give a picture) you could head towards a 2 mile final on a track of e.g 300 degrees and only then at 2 miles align with the runway, something eminently technically doable with today's technology and probably permissible even with a cloud base down at perhaps 700 or 800 feet. |
Originally Posted by pax britanica
(Post 10495708)
Do inbounds fly over Richmond Park at all on approach surely it is two far to the south to be on final for 27L
But the article is a reference to what Heathrow quaintly term "design envelopes for expansion", published back in December and described as "a geographical area within which it is technically possible to position one or more flight paths" (including curved approaches). For example: https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....863f41531c.jpg https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....f04c38ada0.jpg https://afo.heathrowconsultation.com...pdate-2-V1.pdf |
Thanks you two, makes sense now. Friend of mine who lives a mile away on the western side of Croydon got the last consultation notice through his door in whatever form it took.
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Originally Posted by lobby
(Post 10495889)
Do you mean Old Deer Park?
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