Enter Air landing Salzburg
 

Just watched this on the BBC website. That’s got to have hurt....:eek:

Plane tries to land in Austria storm... takes off again - BBC News

Nice flying - looks an severe gust during the flare, and very quick to go around.

Looks gravely concerning - would need the Austrian Authorities to investigate it. Unlike the Dutch authorities: they didn't investigate the decision making, training, ATC and planning after Transavia HV5068 Got to understand the near misses to improve Flight Safety

Looks like a well executed go around, no news here and certainly no big deal

Text book response.

Avenger is correct, a well flown go around from a sudden gust. Dogma seems to think a go around needs investigating by aviation authorities, a sure way to put pilots off flying one.
Sadly every go around is now a potential news item in the age of smart phones and YouTube.

Well Executed? Text Book?

What are you lot smoking?

No ground spoilers on strut compression, maybe already had TOGA

Not idea about the video, wasn't there haven't seen the FDR trace or even read a METAR...but:

Yup...I'm not sure how much longer airlines are going to bother running expensive flight parameter montoring systems, etc that look for events that might need a follow up by "the office" .....

Given the mania for outsourcing give it another decade and you'll no longer get a call from management or the union if you chuck an approach away in interesting circumstances or start flap retraction at 999' feet on departure, you'll get a call from a local spotter or a PM from a moderator to ask about your latest attempt at doing the day job.....

PIO during approach, seemed to disappear during departure.

I could scarcely believe it when, in civil aviation, we were required to file go-around reports. I know the 'reasons' which were trotted out but I believe the requirement to be counter safety.

PIO>???
 

do you think there is PIO on app??

this is from the inside (cabin video) the wx looks wild to me - PF did bloody well

https://youtu.be/FUBtvy3Xssc

have a peek at the cabin video from inside - the storm was wild

some a/c made it in, some div.

What?

:mad::ugh:

That's a very scary close shave.

There appears to be no recognition here of one very important professional aspect.....

There comes a time where the reported weather is so bad that attempting an approach carries more risk than a prudent decision to divert early. That's why we have crosswind and RVR limits.... not so you can push the boundaries with macho abandon, but so you leave yourself a comfortable margin away from them.

So perhaps it would be better to ask.... 'Was good judgement exercised here?'

What about those that did get in first go?

some a/c made it in, some diverted so the videoer says (same as Funchal or GIB on a windy bad day)

are you saying all pilots that make an APP are macho or foolhardy or do not exercise good judgement on such windy days?

I think its fine to sit back on our laptops and sage but on a daily basis airports operate in conditions like this - if the limits were being exceeded then I doubt earlier APP's and landings would have occurred

The video shows fairly steady hands by the flying pilot. He's not chasing every slight roll that occurred due to turbulence.

From the exterior video it was hard to tell if any of the wing drop was caused by the pilot. Interior video shows that it was all from nature and not pilot induced.

Wing flexing, and cabin interior creaking, shows that it's a fairly rough arrival.

The video shows fairly steady hands by the flying pilot. He's not chasing every slight roll that orrcurred due to turbulence.

From the exterior video it was hard to tell if any of the wing drop was caused by the pilot. Interior video shows that it was all from nature and not pilot induced.

Nice job.

I think some of you need to put down the flight stimulator and reevaluate your lives. There isn’t anything here worthy of discussion for professionals.

Firesyok well said. Sometimes it gets rough. & often just as rough at your diversion.
Too many people think they are better pilots than real pilots. As for real pilots degrading real pilots. I hope one day you will be put in the same position. Take as read it will happen if you fly for long enough.

Wonder what Michael OLeary would say, well Pilots have an easy lide don't they.....:D

Wind reported by the tower is a 10 minute average. In bad weather the problem is gusts and windshear which can vary from moment to moment. The guys who landed most likely got lucky in variable wind conditions and made perfectly good landings within crosswind limits.

If they do that, half this forum (heck, probably half the internet) will empty out in short order.

The standard is a two-minute rolling average with maximum gusts and directional variations measured over that period.


Although I don't think it makes a great difference to the events in the videos.

Were there flames coming out of no 2 on go around or my eyes failing me?

That is what you call a strobe light.

I've seen a few cross-wind landing videos like this where the into-wind wing gets lifted during the de-crab, and can't help but wonder if the roll gets started from further effect of rudder. Then, in the absence of any aileron input to hold the into-wind wing down, the crosswind gets under the wing and continues the roll.

If the into-wind wing is held down, a gust will result in translation across the runway, not roll.

Can't see the de-crab rudder input very well on the exterior video, but maybe someone who drives these things can comment?

I guess that this was the flight from the outside...

Plane tries to land in Austria storm... takes off again - BBC News

Look at the smoke stack on the right of the video. Look at the angle of the smoke; from the left. From experience assess the strength of the crosswind. Was it that wild? Look at the behaviour of the a/c; left wing down, right wing down. R&R. PIO? An attempt at 100' of left wing down, not very positive, then at 30' a huge right bank - not good with wind from left - then a huge lunge to the left to correct, just touched left wheel first and an immediate GA. This could suggest a large rudder input in the flare without counter aileron to keep wings level. If the pilot was 'having difficulty' due to experience, I wonder if the captain took over and made the GA. It was immediate; there was no attempt to rock & roll the a/c onto the ground. It was boom & go. To me it could be a change of hands on the controls. If so, then a huge well done to the skipper.
Without a longitudinal picture it is difficult to assess accurately what the lateral flight path & crab angle was and the control inputs; but IMHO it was not a 'stable controlled' arrival. We also need the ATC wind information on finals to help our opinions. However, to dismiss this with the disdain some have done IMHO is not valid. The crew made the correct decision, no doubt, but to dismiss the event so lightly is debatable. No doubt this happens very often every day around the world; it's how we learn, but give credit where it is due to the pilot who made the GA. However, do not dismiss the possible mis-handling of the last 500' as trivia without us knowing the true Wx conditions. If this was mere X-wind then someone needs more practice.

Hmm RAT 5, all plausible but a lot of guesswork and speculation, especially the change of hands on the touchdown. My feeling is that, regardless who was PF, they simply decided to have a go hoping that they may arrive over the threshold in between gusts, (remember that some others did get in) but equally decided that if things went pear shaped they would without hesitation execute an immediate G/A.

I've read in, but haven't seen a word about ground speed.

Without knowing how much concrete he'd got left, or the exact surface wind time-line, I'd be making wild guesses, but me, I'd have had my hand on the taps and been thinking the tell-tale reporting system could go and :mad: itself.

The aircraft seems for a moment bizarrely slow over the ground. This leaves it at the mercy of a surface wind dropping off just about the time this aircraft fell out of the very limited sky, right wing first.

Five out of six Russian Roulette players will report that it was "exciting, but in the end harmless"

Runway 33, Wind 270/26G46. Can be wild at times due to the surrounding terrain.

Thanks Tractor. The smoke-sock didn't look that bad. That is challenging.

Not familiar with liners like the 737, but are there any procedures like landing with less then full flaps during heavy wind/crosswind/gusts, to have better control response?

For 737NG the book says:
Flap Setting for Landing
For normal landings, use flaps 15, 30, or flaps 40. Flaps 15 is normally limited to airports where approach climb performance is a factor. Flaps 30 provides better noise abatement and reduced flap wear/loads. When performance criteria are met, use flaps 40 to minimize landing speed, and landing distance.
Note: Normal landings using flaps 15 are permitted for authorized operators with appropriate performance data available.

and Limitations chapter (tailored for my company, might be different for EnterAir):
Flaps 15 normal landings are prohibited. A Flaps 15 landing may be performed when required by a non-normal procedure.

Normally not necessary in jet transports.
Don't confuse that technique published for example in the Cessna 172 POH that states: Crosswind Landings - When landing in a strong crosswind, use the minimum flap setting required for the field length. If flap settings greater than 20 degrees are used in side-slips with full rudder deflection, some elevator oscillation may be felt at normal approach speeds. However, this does affect control of the airplane.

Reduced flap settings with concomitant extra speed, run the risk of a longer float which is undesirable during any landing - cross-wind included.

On the A320, reduced flap (3) is recommended for windshear

Speaking obviously as a passenger but one who has flown a lot-including being based in Bermuda for 12 yearss (land of horizontal rain, massive storms and gusts from the South West where the runway is 31/13 due to topography) I think pilots today have a tough job in these circumstances where there is a lot of pressure to keep to schedule and soem critical decsions have to be made very quickly close to the ground..

To me it seemd this flight was certainly a bit rocky as it came down the approach but under control. Just over the threshold things go from bad to worse really really quickly, the crew decide to go around and thanks to the awesome power available on a light weight twin airliner they can power away from all kinds of trouble but in this case they were so close to ground when things went really wild that the aircraft did touch down, just unavoidable.

i thought it was great video to watch being glad I wasnt in 33A but the crew did as good a job as could be expected in extremely tricky conditions. These shouldn't be portrayed -as they almost always are as nearly a crash. Unless the crew were busting limits on the approach it looks like a well done if not everyday piece of work in chalelnging conditions.

I love it when a simple TOGA creates such an in-depth and irrelevant discussion and debate.

Unstable on the flare... resulted in TOGA power, flaps 30 and pitch 10.