Thomson Cape Verde Crews
 

Do these UK crews still nightstop down route, or is now a 2 sector day?

Normally a night stop.

Why would you like to know? Seems an odd question.

i recall back in the early 90's Excalibur airlines tried Banjul BJL there and back but did not last long
(2 sector day - with a 2nd crew used to prep and board pax on the a/c then the operating crew boarded at the last minute)
the CAA did not like it

Thomson also tried Dakar once as a new holiday destination (not) in 1990/91 as a there and back - didn't last long!

Thomson's night stop for BJL and cape Verde islands (CV at 2320nm is about 100nm less than BJL)

one of the longest 2 sector days I recall was LGW-Aswan 2250nm and GLA-Sharm was usually a night stop for crews but most other SSH flights were there and back for the crew
although BA night stopped when they op'd SSH from LGW and it was a Long haul 777

I'd like to ask about TOM crew scheduling as well. Their Bournemouth summer routes usually are a short haul morning rotation, Balearics and back, then a longer afternoon flight, Greece/Cyprus/Canaries etc. How do they work flight crews around this, would the pilots/cabin crew have enough hours to do the four sectors, or do they tend to do an early/late shift pattern kind of thing?

I don't know how the TOM scheduling is worked, but no, they wouldn't have the hours to do four sectors you mention.....

nope - crews will be rostered only the 2 sectors a day for a (one) there and back for an operation such as TOM's at BOH.

or 1 if its a long haul - can be 2 sectors if desperate on long haul if in hours to do it for CC such as LGW-ANU-UVF - pilots prob no

can be rostered 3 sectors such as LHR-NCE-LHR-JER then nightstop in a hotel - this is then 2 rostered days at work, even if CC were to position home next day as passengers after the night stop counts as a days work

the roster (which maybe 4 5 or even 6 days on sometimes) often may start with short flights like a Palma then maybe a standby at home or at airport then finish with maybe 2 night flights - but no set formula in a busy summer rosters can be awful or not so awful
i have known 3 night flights rostered in row with the last one being the longest like a TFS or RHO

airlines like EZY sometimes have a 6 on 3 off or similar but nightstops are becoming more common so that breaks that pattern

we used to have 3 sector days on charters at Monarch and Britannia
LGW - skiathos mykonos or santorini and all due short runways there in 1980's you needed a fuel tech stop at ATH or SKG on the way home - this 3rd sector severely depleted the amount of crew hours you had to play with and if there were ATC delays (common in those days especially in Greece) or a tech or pax problem then you would go into Capts' discretion but legally you cannot do that on the outward flight if delayed out of there first

can be even more complicated if crew were working the day before and what time they had finished
or whether they clocked on before 0600 as well

when i was at BMA LHR in 70's and 80's we flew 6 sector days on Domestics
DC-9 and Viscount flights LHR - MME LPL BHX LBA and EMA

such as Teesside and back 3 times - both FD and CC did this

at weekends Jersey too 3 times there and back!

many years ago before FCTL became standard a few dodgy holiday airlines did make cabin crew do either split duty or a double Palma

In answer to your question, yes, they nightstop.

If they're MAN based crew they fly back to LGW, and LGW crew back to MAN.

Laarbruch72 not an odd question at all.
You can see the conversation it has generated.

The reason I ask is that Sharm is right on the limits for a 2 sector day, was just interested how they managed Verde.

Thanks for the negativity however!

just recalled there are still some Greek island 3 sectors days operating

skiathos is one and can be back via SKG lemnos or volos especially the A321 back to MAN as if full they cannot get off JSI with the fuel needed

Thomas Cook also this summer had MAN-JMK-CFU-MAN not sure if this was a split load or for fuel

Went to Banjul in '84 and '85 from Gatwick with Caledonian and as far as I recall, the same crew did both legs.

There was no negativity, merely an enquiry.

Indeed, however I was considering the crews' personal safety angle. If you know Cape Verde well, you'll understand why. But no matter, you got your answer from the ever-helpful PPRuNe membership.

Rog - Um not sure about the"CAA not liking it" - the issue was the aircraft (A320) not liking it due to the range with Y180 (?) or more to the point the toilets not liking it (full after 4 hours).
Eventually the load came down or it tech stopped with crew change

yes it was a combo of all of the above - did you work for EXCAB?

I handled them at LGW and my flat mate was no.1 crew for BY Britannia who at the time also were adopting the same practice of long sector days going there and back but with a second crew prepping the flight at LGW and the operating crew just walking on board at the last minute and taking over.

the EXCAB BJL flight was afaik flightplanned non-stop both ways but i recall the inbound flights had to drop in somewhere for fuel - making the issue well known of going into Capt's discretion even before leaving LGW as questionable.

the powers that be got wind of this practice and it was abandoned certainly by Britannia IIRC.

Out of interest, what would the working hours have been of the crew prepping the flight ? Would they have been on some form of standby to prep various flights without actually operating any during this duty period ?

IIRC that prep crew after boarding the passengers then operated a shorter flight such as a Palma or Alicante so they were completely in hours

Yep hence my comment I think you might be getting the Airlines mixed up. CAA never had an issue at EXC and dispatch crews not used. If they dropped in to Spain for fuel a replacement crew was dispatched so it was a long day but no discretion. In the end if my memory serves me right the load dropped such that it could be operated round trip.

TOM fly to both Sal and Boa Vista from the UK.

Standard practice is to night-stop for both islands.

Depending on the rotation patterns a crew may stop for more than one night.

Historically, there and back flights have been rostered but these require morning departures to utilise maximum crew duty limitations and leave little or no flex for delays without use of discretion.

Boa Vista is, or at least was up until last year when I retired, a day only operation due to a lack of runway lighting and only has an NDB or visual approach available.

Other European operators night-stop their crews in the Canaries operating in effect a slip pattern eg TFS-SAL-TFS.

Hope this helps the original enquiry.

thanks very much - yes maybe my Poirot little grey matter has precluded my events LOL

it could have been IEA and not EXCAB... thanks for the memories!